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Capitalisation in Esperanto

de paksu, 2009-decembro-07

Mesaĝoj: 9

Lingvo: English

paksu (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-07 13:28:02

Saluton karaj

Just wonder the capitalisation in Esperanto follows the other language that the proper noun should be capitalised.For example, May the month Majo or majo, the dictionary in this site is in small letter.

Dankon
Gxis la sal.gif

tommjames (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-07 14:03:10

Capitalisation in Esperanto is a somewhat grey area and there aren't really any hard and fast rules, however proper nouns are almost always capitalised. If your Esperanto is good enough you can read about it here.

As that page makes clear though, some proper nouns are sometimes left uncapitalized. For your question, here is the relevant section:

PMEG:Monatoj «
Monatonomoj (Januaro, Februaro, Marto, Muharamo°, Ramadano k.a.) estas normalaj propraj nomoj. Tradicie, Fundamente kaj Zamenhofe ili estas do skribataj kun komenca majusklo. Nuntempe tamen multaj skribas ilin minuskle, kvankam oni ankoraŭ ĉiam traktas ilin kiel proprajn nomojn (ĉiam sen "la"):
Translated: Names of the months are normally proper nouns. Traditionally they are therefore written with a capital letter. Nowadays however many people write them in lowercase, although people still treat them as proper nouns (always without "la").

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-07 18:55:09

We don't capitalize as many things in Esperanto as in English.

The guidelines I set out below are common practice; tommjames already said what the Fundamento says about this topic, but the list below reflects the use of the community, as I have observed.

Normally we capitalize:
- names of people (Johano, Vilhelmo)
- names of countries and cities (Usono, Londono)
- names of languages that are expressed in noun form; these are languages not associated with a given ethnic group, so they are usually either dead or international (Esperanto, Ido, Volapuko, Sanskrito)

Normally we do NOT capitalize:
- names of months (januaro, februaro)
- names of days (lundo, mardo)
- names of languages that are expressed in adjective form; these are languages associated with an ethnicity, whether the ethnicity is real or fictional (Klingon is an example of a fictional ethnicity) (la angla, la franca, la klingona)
- adjective forms of proper names. So in English, we say "a French person lives in France". In Esperanto, we say "franca persono loĝas en Francio"

I may have missed a few cases but those are the main differences between Esperanto and English as far as capitalization goes. Esperanto speakers sometimes use capitalization customs from their native languages, but the guidelines written above are adhered to by most speakers and most Esperanto publications.

darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-07 19:34:34

Sometimes you see "vi" capitalized as "Vi", then this usually is a bit more respectful, but such usage is very rare and I never use it. I observed that many German speakers use it, probably due to the obligatory capitalization of "Sie" and optional capitalization of "du" (the last of which I never capitalize) in German.

In most cases, this doesn't really matter, after all it's still the same word whether you capitalize it or not. okulumo.gif

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-08 16:21:05

darkweasel:Sometimes you see "vi" capitalized as "Vi", then this usually is a bit more respectful, but such usage is very rare and I never use it. I observed that many German speakers use it, probably due to the obligatory capitalization of "Sie" and optional capitalization of "du" (the last of which I never capitalize) in German.
The pronoun "vi" capitalized as "Vi" is not more respectful, although some speakers of languages like German and Italian might use it in this way, because their languages do that.

According to Esperanto rules, capitalizing a pronoun does not add the idea of greater respect. Anyone who does it is borrowing from their native language and assuming that others will understand.

I think that people do it out of simple ignorance. They want to be respectful, and they simply don't stop to think that respect might be shown differently in foreign languages.

I see this occasionally in foreign speakers of English as well. From time to time I will receive an e-mail from a non-native English speaker which says something like "I hope that You can come". They are obviouly trying to write in a very polite way, but they don't realize that we don't show politeness with capitalization in English - and that it looks strange to an English speaker (as it looks strange, also, to an Esperanto speaker) They probably persist in writing this way because the people they write to can see their good intentions (even though this form is not used in English), and feel that it would be rude to correct them.

jchthys (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-08 17:03:43

erinja:I see this occasionally in foreign speakers of English as well. From time to time I will receive an e-mail from a non-native English speaker which says something like "I hope that You can come". They are obviouly trying to write in a very polite way, but they don't realize that we don't show politeness with capitalization in English - and that it looks strange to an English speaker (as it looks strange, also, to an Esperanto speaker) They probably persist in writing this way because the people they write to can see their good intentions (even though this form is not used in English), and feel that it would be rude to correct them.
I've actually written back to a nonnative speaker using the capitalized You.

I read somewhere on the Web—I can’t find it again—an excerpt of Zamenhof explaining how he used capitalized Vi merely because others might take it as a sign of disrespect if he didn’t, but that it was illogical and he expected its use to decline eventually.

Sometimes I do use la with names of months (for example “en la decembro de 2008”), because I treat them like common nouns, because I don’t capitalize them. Is this normal?

ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-09 10:14:23

erinja:
I think that people do it out of simple ignorance
Ah, such blunt words - I prefer "do it without realising the wider implications of their actions" lango.gif

I think the whole special pronoun for "you" (polite form etc) thing is a bit over the top. People should be saying "you" respecfully and politely to begin with! rido.gif

darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-09 14:43:55

jchthys:
Sometimes I do use la with names of months (for example “en la decembro de 2008”), because I treat them like common nouns, because I don’t capitalize them. Is this normal?
No, it isn't. PMEG: Month names

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2009-decembro-09 18:01:50

darkweasel:
jchthys:
Sometimes I do use la with names of months (for example “en la decembro de 2008”), because I treat them like common nouns, because I don’t capitalize them. Is this normal?
No, it isn't. PMEG: Month names
I think you may have misunderstood jchthys's question.

I understand it that if jchthys is talking about one specific December, then he will use "la".

So, for example, that he would say "Decembro estas mia plej sxatata monato" (December is my favorite month), or "Decembro estas tre malvarma monato" (December is a very cold month), but that he would say "La plej malvarma decembro kiun mi memoras estas tiu de 2007" (The coldest December that I can remember is the one in 2007). He is talking about one specific December, not just December in general, so he uses "la".

I could really go either way on this point.

I would say "En aprilo de 2001, mi vizitis Bostonon" (I visited Boston in April, 2001). But I would say "Mi bone memoras la plej malvarman januaron de mia vivo" (I remember well the coldest January of my life)

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