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I puzzle in "another" in esperanto"plia,plua,alia",help me!

از Hyoyo, 6 اکتبر 2010

پست‌ها: 10

زبان: English

Hyoyo (نمایش مشخصات) 6 اکتبر 2010،‏ 9:30:44

When i can use "plia" and when use others?Thank

sudanglo (نمایش مشخصات) 6 اکتبر 2010،‏ 10:13:31

Ĉu vi volas plian bieron? = Do you want another beer (in addition to those already drunk?

Ĉu vi preferus alian pladon? = Do you want something different (to eat)?

Mi ne povas fari pluan paŝon = I can't go any farther (too tired).

'Another' in English has multiple meanings, which are distinguished in Esperanto.

ceigered (نمایش مشخصات) 6 اکتبر 2010،‏ 11:12:54

I had a nice response prepared for this but closed the browser forgetting that I had written it.

But basically I had as examples:

Estas plia homo kiu volas paroli kun vi
~= Ni havas pli homoj, kaj la lasta volas paroli kun vi.
(There's another person, after the other ones, who wants to talk with you)

Estas plua homo kiu volas paroli kun vi
= Estas plia homo kiu volas paroli kun vi kiel la aliaj
(There's another person who wants to talk with you, after the other ones who want to talk with you)

Estas alia homo kiu volas paroli kun vi
= Estas la homo kiu ne estas la resto, kiu volas paroli kun vi.
(There's another person, in opposition to the rest, who wants to talk with you).

There roots aren't the same, but in adjective format they have many similarities, which have very small nuances which set them apart. Because of this, you can technically use them in eachothers' places at certain times, but theres a slight change in meaning which may have to be made up using extra words or changing the sentence).

Hyoyo (نمایش مشخصات) 6 اکتبر 2010،‏ 11:16:55

Thank

erinja (نمایش مشخصات) 6 اکتبر 2010،‏ 13:59:23

ceigered:Estas plia homo kiu volas paroli kun vi
~= Ni havas pli da homoj, kaj la lasta volas paroli kun vi.
(There's another person, after the other ones, who wants to talk with you)
Estas plua homo kiu volas paroli kun vi
= Estas plia homo kiu volas paroli kun vi kiel la aliaj
(There's another person who wants to talk with you, after the other ones who want to talk with you)
Plua and plia don't mean the same thing; although versions of this sentence with plu and pli are very similar in meaning, they are not exactly the same.

Plia means one in addition to the others. Pli is by its essence a comparison. One more than before, you might say.

Plu does NOT mean one more; it means a continuation. The root meaning of plu is all about continuation.

This isn't a good sentence for distinguishing between pli and plu, in my opinion.

I'd say:

"Mi akceptas plian laboron" (I accept more work than I accepted before, or more work than someone else accepts)

"Mi akceptas pluan laboron" (I accept a continuation of work - I was working before, and I accept the fact of continuing my previous work)

"Mi akceptas alian laboron" (I accept another job - I accept different work than whatever I was doing before, or different work than someone else has accepted)
Estas alia homo kiu volas paroli kun vi
= Estas la homo kiu ne estas la cetero, kiu volas paroli kun vi.
(There's another person, in opposition to the rest, who wants to talk with you).
Don't confuse cetero (the rest, the remainder, the remaining ones) with resto (a stay; resti = to stay)

tommjames (نمایش مشخصات) 6 اکتبر 2010،‏ 14:14:16

erinja:Don't confuse cetero (the rest, the remainder, the remaining ones) with resto (a stay; resti = to stay)
I guess it's arguable that a 'resto' should be an act of staying, or remaining, but resto is quite often used to mean the same thing as cetero. The definition at ReVo suggests they are approximately the same and a quick search in Tekstaro reveals plenty of those kinds of uses.

That said, I would incline to cetero myself, to remove any possible ambiguity.

This actually cropped up in a previous thread: http://eo.lernu.net/komunikado/forumo/temo.php?t=4771&printebla=1

ceigered (نمایش مشخصات) 6 اکتبر 2010،‏ 15:27:07

I thought something was strange about that definition for "resto" I was reading (see Lernu dictionary). Anyway, brain-freeze moment, "cetero" is exactly the word I wanted.

@ Erinja: Thanks for that, I'm aware of that in case it was directed to me, but was trying to figure an alternate version to Sudanglo's, using "plu" to describe a continuation of people wanting to talk with the person. Hopefully your extrapolation shoots down any misunderstandings I created there.

Also, could one say "Ni havas pli multaj homoj" sans "da"?

erinja (نمایش مشخصات) 6 اکتبر 2010،‏ 16:08:42

Ni havas pli multajn homojn.

This is acceptable because pli is an adverb, and adverbs can modify adjectives ("tre bona"), even though adverbs cannot modify nouns ("multe da akvo")

tommjames (نمایش مشخصات) 6 اکتبر 2010،‏ 16:10:13

ceigered:I thought something was strange about that definition for "resto" I was reading (see Lernu dictionary).
If you're referring to:

resto (rest·o ← rest·i)
rest, remainder

..there isn't anything wrong with it (see post above). A resto can be an act of staying, or a remainder, according to context. Although you could consider adding "stay" to it.

Nala_Cat15 (نمایش مشخصات) 13 ژوئن 2019،‏ 22:47:13

Dankegon erinja

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