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E-o and CVs

של fojo, 22 באוגוסט 2006

הודעות: 7

שפה: English

fojo (הצגת פרופיל) 22 באוגוסט 2006, 13:00:51

Silly question coming up here. Would you include your knowledge of E-o in the languages section of your CV? This goes for Europeans probably since I know in US "resumés" there's generally no such a part; but here in Europe is a must. Would it be counterproductive as would portray you as outlandish? If some day some form of "Fina Venko " is achieved, we shouldn't be scared to do so, as E-o would have some kind of practical utility.

Rao (הצגת פרופיל) 22 באוגוסט 2006, 16:00:13

I think it's interesting to mention it. There's a chance it will interest someone, even if he/she doesn't know about Esperanto yet. And when I say "interest someone", it is not only about curiosity, it's also about business. Besides it, if you have learned a language more, you have also problably bigger cultural experience and larger vision.

(Sorry for poor writting. Between, neither do I have used a CV untill now, nor do I live in an English-language country. sal.gif)

erinja (הצגת פרופיל) 23 באוגוסט 2006, 16:08:17

fojo:Silly question coming up here. Would you include your knowledge of E-o in the languages section of your CV? This goes for Europeans probably since I know in US "resumés" there's generally no such a part; but here in Europe is a must. Would it be counterproductive as would portray you as outlandish? If some day some form of "Fina Venko " is achieved, we shouldn't be scared to do so, as E-o would have some kind of practical utility.
This question is not so silly at all, because I was looking for a job last year, and since I am newly unemployed (again), I'm looking for a job again now. And languages are becoming increasingly important also in the US, so my CV does indeed have a languages section. After several discussions with friends and relatives, and a lot of thinking, I decided to include it. The point is, that it's a language and I speak it. It's not some silly thing from a TV show - I do substantial volunteer work for lernu! and I have done some Esperanto teaching etc while studying at MIT. Companies generally want to know a little about your interests outside of work, and if I were to leave out Esperanto entirely... actually it would be like I was hiding something. Esperanto took me to Sarajevo for a week-long conference, I met my boyfriend with it, and I've travelled a few places with it. The point is - ok, if you're a beginner and you're learning Esperanto and haven't really done much with it then maybe you shouldn't include it on your resume. But if you have actually done something interesting or useful with Esperanto, then I think it's worth mentioning on your resume. If you tell someone "Yeah, I got a free trip to Sarajevo with Esperanto, to participate in a seminar on intercultural learning" - it doesn't sound so silly, it sounds useful, and they're more likely to take it seriously.

Le Hibou (הצגת פרופיל) 24 באוגוסט 2006, 12:19:19

erinja:
This question is not so silly at all, because I was looking for a job last year, and since I am newly unemployed (again), I'm looking for a job again now. And languages are becoming increasingly important also in the US, so my CV does indeed have a languages section. After several discussions with friends and relatives, and a lot of thinking, I decided to include it. The point is, that it's a language and I speak it. It's not some silly thing from a TV show - I do substantial volunteer work for lernu! and I have done some Esperanto teaching etc while studying at MIT. Companies generally want to know a little about your interests outside of work, and if I were to leave out Esperanto entirely... actually it would be like I was hiding something. Esperanto took me to Sarajevo for a week-long conference, I met my boyfriend with it, and I've travelled a few places with it. The point is - ok, if you're a beginner and you're learning Esperanto and haven't really done much with it then maybe you shouldn't include it on your resume. But if you have actually done something interesting or useful with Esperanto, then I think it's worth mentioning on your resume. If you tell someone "Yeah, I got a free trip to Sarajevo with Esperanto, to participate in a seminar on intercultural learning" - it doesn't sound so silly, it sounds useful, and they're more likely to take it seriously.
I partly agree mith you, Erinja, however, if E-o was the only other language I knew, then I think a typical reaction might be "Why did you waste your time learning a useless language like Esperanto, instead of, say, French or German?". But, if you can speak another language well, then learning Esperanto is can be seen as part of a genuine interest in languages in general.

I live in Belgium, and I speak English (native) and French (well), but I don't think I'll put E-o in my CV until I have a good command of Dutch, which is one of the two main languages of the country. I might put in the "hobbies/interests" section something like "Linguistics, Esperanto, Basketball" (the basketball is a lie!), because that sounds much better than the usual "Reading, music, cinema" - I have been on the other side of the fence, interviewing people, and when I see that in a CV I just think "yeah, yeah, everyone reads, listens to music and watches films, what makes you different from the rest?"
So for you Erinja, you CV probably looks good because you also know a few other languages, but for Fojo? I dunno.

Talking Pie (הצגת פרופיל) 24 באוגוסט 2006, 13:11:51

I include Esperanto on my CV because it's interesting, and is perhaps the most time-consuming of my hobbies. It's also impressive to some employers and can possibly be useful to them. If an employer would think that my hobbies are stupid or silly, then to be blunt I'd rather not work for them, so it's win-win.

Mi inkluzivas Esperanton en mia CV, ĉar ĝi estas interesa, kaj ankaŭ ĝi estas plej temp-konsumanta da miaj hobioj. Ankaŭ, por kelkaj labordonantoj, ĝi estas impresema, kaj povas esti utila. Kaj, malakre, se labordonanto pensus, ke miaj hobioj estis stulta aŭ stulteta, mi ne volus labori por ili.

fojo (הצגת פרופיל) 25 באוגוסט 2006, 12:11:56

Thank you for your interesting thought-provoking replies; you have very nearly convinced me, but...

Probably Erinja is not a good study case since she is so easily marketable (sophisticated+intelligente+beautiful+nice), but let's all imagine her CV:

LANGUAGES
-Esperanto: very high
-Italian: intermediate
-Yiddish: basic
-Latin: still strugling with the participles
-Old English: only in nightmares

unless of course she is applying for a languages bookshop or a Jewish convention or the Esperanto Akademio, etc., there's a risk she is conceptualized as some sort of idealist off-ground somewhat freaky person, which yes, for us, she is not (maybe cause we all are?), but I am thinking the usual profit-orientated cut-throat business thing, you know; I bet this is what looks nice in the US:

LANGUAGES
-Spanish: very high (X diploma, X relatives, I have use it here and there...)
-Chinese: I am learning at the moment

Le Hibou: your point then is that: only when it is one more element in the weaponry of a polyglot (say 3+ languages); the catch I see here is that maybe presenting oneself as a polyglot is not clearly wise; for some reason, true brilliant polyglottery has a knack to ellicit some sort of envy-skeptism, which can lead to trouble.

But all in all, is a complex issue; the interest I saw and the reason I posted, is that it points to the "sociological place" E-o has at the moment; I mean, whether an interviewer knows of its very existence, whether more people include or not...somehow show where we stand at the moment in the wider society; let's all hope some day it is included as a matter of fact!

erinja (הצגת פרופיל) 27 באוגוסט 2006, 15:29:33

fojo:Thank you for your interesting thought-provoking replies; you have very nearly convinced me, but...

Probably Erinja is not a good study case since she is so easily marketable (sophisticated+intelligente+beautiful+nice), but let's all imagine her CV:
Haha this must be why it took me six months to find a job last time I was looking for one.

I agree that listing my levels in Esperanto, Italian, Yiddish, Latin, and Old English would look very strange. The languages section of my CV only lists Esperanto and Italian. Perhaps if I were highly active in Yiddish, Old English, or Latin associations I would include one of those. If I were fluent in one of those (speaking + reading + writing) maybe I would include it but again, I think most of these things are a judgement call based on the person's language level. Incidentally I have since learned some basic French, so the new debate is whether to include it. I can't really speak it beyond the most basic conversations but I can read it ok.
LANGUAGES
-Esperanto: very high
-Italian: intermediate
-Yiddish: basic
-Latin: still strugling with the participles
-Old English: only in nightmares

unless of course she is applying for a languages bookshop or a Jewish convention or the Esperanto Akademio, etc., there's a risk she is conceptualized as some sort of idealist off-ground somewhat freaky person, which yes, for us, she is not (maybe cause we all are?), but I am thinking the usual
Especially since I am a mechanical engineer and thus not looking for jobs that have anything to do with languages whatsoever. Actually the point I underscore in my cover letter is that I learn languages independantly [Esperanto + Italian, + now French] and that this demonstrates that I am good at learning things independantly, in general.
Le Hibou: your point then is that: only when it is one more element in the weaponry of a polyglot (say 3+ languages); the catch I see here is that maybe presenting oneself as a polyglot is not clearly wise; for some reason, true brilliant polyglottery has a knack to ellicit some sort of envy-skeptism, which can lead to trouble.
Right. It also depends on the job. If I were applying for a post in the classics department of a university, Latin and Old English would be appropriate to list. But I think that no matter what the job, if you speak "standard" languages, it should be fine. So if I were to list French, Italian, Spanish, and German, I would probably be seen as a good candidate. If I were to list Slovenian, Lithuanian, Finnish, and Swedish, and I do not come from any of these countries, I would likely be seen as strange even though they are perfectly "valid" (whatever that means) languages - not dead, not constructed, and spoken by millions of people (or at least a couple million each).

Incidentally I think the cover letter can do a lot to help you out in this case. If you're sending a CV all by itself, you might say something different than if you send a CV with a cover letter.

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