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The LGBT Community and Esperanto

de 12cavenderadam, 2016-februaro-02

Mesaĝoj: 60

Lingvo: English

altindiefanboy (Montri la profilon) 2016-februaro-04 20:52:27

brulponeo:It's not irrelevant to me ridulo.gif
How is either gender or biological sex (be it binary or otherwise) relevant to being pansexual? Saying "it's not irrelevant to me" doesn't actually mean that it's relevant.

If a person is a male (biologically or identified) and fits the definition of pansexual, they are pansexual, right? And as such, they can answer the poll as "pansexual".

If a person is a female (biologically or identified) and fits the definition of pansexual, they are pansexual, right? And as such, they can answer the poll as "pansexual".

If a person is otherwise genderqueer (physically identifiable, mentally identifiable, hormonally, etc.) and fits the definition of pansexual, they are pansexual, right? And as such, they can answer the poll as "pansexual".

That's why I said that you being transgender is irrelevant whether or not you are pansexual.

brulponeo:Well, what you refer to as "hermaphrodite" is called intersex (which doesn't mean "born with both sets of genitalia", but includes people born with ambiguous genitalia, people with resistances to androgen or estrogen, etc).
I see. Thanks for this information. "Hermaphrodite" is an appropriate term for those who are "born with both sets of genitalia"; The term for that is, indeed, "hermaphrodite". I also specifically included in my statement anyone that might be refered to as "intersex", when I said the following:
altindiefanboy:I suppose there are natural hermaphrodites or those with various disorders that would affect their reproductive system.
"Intersex" could have effectively taken place of that whole phrase, so I'll consider using that word in the future.

brulponeo (Montri la profilon) 2016-februaro-04 22:47:47

Vestitor:All of that I am aware of, yet consider this: if the 'true number' is so hidden, how could it be known at all? It's all estimation.
This is information that is very easily findable elsewhere on the 'net. Genitals exist on a spectrum, as does sex, as does gender - it just so happens that this fact has largely been erased from modern society at large.

altindiefanboy:"Hermaphrodite" is an appropriate term for those who are "born with both sets of genitalia"; The term for that is, indeed, "hermaphrodite".
"Hermaphrodite" is an antiquated, scientific term that the intersex community finds offensive. Unless you are a doctor in care of an intersex person with a "true hermaphroditic" condition, you have no reason to use that word and so should use "intersex" instead.

Folks, I am not intersex and so cannot speak for the intersex community. Instead of posing simple questions here on a language-learning forum, why not peruse google and do your own research?

altindiefanboy:How is either gender or biological sex (be it binary or otherwise) relevant to being pansexual?
Because I'm guessing the whole reason the OP made this thread (who, I'll remind you, mentioned LGBT in the topic thread - that T stands for transgender and I'll thank people to start leaving it off if you're going to exclude us) is to find other LGBT Esperanto speakers to talk with. I am doing the same thing, except my trans identity is a bit more relevent to my identity as a whole, so I brought it up. As a result, I am now speaking to a few different LGBT Esperanto speakers via PM. (Including the OP of this thread!) As that was the intended result, I'd say it's proven to be pretty relevant.

greenghost (Montri la profilon) 2016-februaro-04 23:13:35

I don't want to get too deep into the discussion here, just commenting for visibility, too. I am a transgender male, but I answered bisexual in the poll as that is my sexual/romantic orientation, and I agree it should also include Trans people, since it's the lgbT community. Though it's not surprising; Everyone always forgets the T.
Also, no one would answer straight/gay based on their biological sex instead of their gender identity.

But whatever, if anyone wants to talk to another trans dude, feel free to contact me.

12cavenderadam (Montri la profilon) 2016-februaro-05 00:07:01

I'm sorry about not including gender identity on the poll malgajo.gif

I wasn't sure how to add that as an option for the poll, as sexual orientation and gender identity are different things. As far as I know, in the poll only one option can be selected, so I would need to create a separate poll for gender identity?

Sorry, I'm new to lernu! and haven't really got to grips with it yet.

greenghost (Montri la profilon) 2016-februaro-05 00:18:26

12cavenderadam:I'm sorry about not including gender identity on the poll malgajo.gif

I wasn't sure how to add that as an option for the poll, as sexual orientation and gender identity are different things. As far as I know, in the poll only one option can be selected, so I would need to create a separate poll for gender identity?

Sorry, I'm new to lernu! and haven't really got to grips with it yet.
It's okay. Gender identity and sexual/romantic orientation are indeed different things and trans people would be very angry if they were treated as the same, though I got slightly angry anyway that the T wasn't mentioned at all. Sorry for putting you in a no-win situation, I guess.

And while I'd be interested in a new poll only for gender identity, I'm not sure how many trans people are in this forum participating...anyway, if you do it, make sure you don't label cisgender identities as just male/female while transgender identities are specified to be trans.

brulponeo (Montri la profilon) 2016-februaro-05 00:49:22

12cavenderadam:I'm sorry about not including gender identity on the poll malgajo.gif

I wasn't sure how to add that as an option for the poll, as sexual orientation and gender identity are different things. As far as I know, in the poll only one option can be selected, so I would need to create a separate poll for gender identity?

Sorry, I'm new to lernu! and haven't really got to grips with it yet.
It's fine amiko - it happens more often than not and I'm pretty used to it, lol. And you are correct that they are different things. In no way was I attempting to make an issue over it, I was simply trying to point it out and why it's important. When people argue that it isn't important, I get grumpy.

Also ditto to what @greenghost said.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2016-februaro-05 00:58:51

BTW you can't edit an existing poll or add a poll to anything but the first message in a forum, but it is possible to make a poll where users can select more than one option.

Such a poll could contain male, female, trans, cis, gay, straight, bi, pan, etc, and people could pick as many as necessary (e.g. straight trans man, gay cis woman, etc)

brulponeo (Montri la profilon) 2016-februaro-05 01:10:21

^ I would support and participate in a poll like this!

And just to avoid stepping on any toes, I support an "other" option that encourages the respondent to comment with their identities if they feel they've been missed.

Vestitor (Montri la profilon) 2016-februaro-05 01:15:54

brulponeo:
Vestitor:All of that I am aware of, yet consider this: if the 'true number' is so hidden, how could it be known at all? It's all estimation.
This is information that is very easily findable elsewhere on the 'net. Genitals exist on a spectrum, as does sex, as does gender - it just so happens that this fact has largely been erased from modern society at large.
Yes, yes. Those statistics are observed cases, not the so-called shadowy unknown cases - with the vague implication that it's happening around every corner. They point to 500 cases per million births (with the atypical genitalia not necessarily influencing sexual orientation). That's 5-7,000 people in 10 million!

I'm making no denial of either genitalia anomalies or condemnations of sexual inclinations, just pointing out that people get carried away with numbers.

robbkvasnak (Montri la profilon) 2016-februaro-05 01:56:24

The whole alphabet thing was born in the USA - and that is where it should stay. It is a reflection of US society. I think that Esperanto should go its own way and forget about GLBT or LGBT or TBLG or whatever. I suggest that we seek a word that would offer space for us all.
I know that in the USA there is now a trend to use 'queer' - but that was a word that was used for bullying and namecalling (I was a victim of it and I shudder every time I hear it.)
Originally the word 'geja' came into Esperanto from American English but when it came into Esperanto it had a more universal meaning and was not specific to homosexual males (also perceived by some in the US as white homosexual males, uff). Why can't we just use 'gegeja' for everybody who feels that they are outside what they perceive to be the same-old same-old or 'traditional role' in sexuality. Or 'liberseksema' or something?
I was at the LSG meeting in Lille and I heard people 'attacking' others for seeming to ignore their particular niche when I really don't think that that was anyone's intention. And the local French group flinched when I discribed our local group here as also giving homeless younger people counseling on sexually transmitted diseases - so there seems to be cultural cultural luggage to observe as well.
I volunteer here where I live and there are a number of people who come to us and say: "I am not gay/lesbian/bi blablabla but I have sex with (fill in the blank) and I need help." It really gets confusing because stereotypes get attached to the letters and cubby holes.
Anyway, this is a fruitful (no pun intended) conversation on lernu - and I think that Esperanto culture has to find its own way.

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