Al la enhavo

construction of (new) words

de mccambjd, 2007-marto-06

Mesaĝoj: 7

Lingvo: English

mccambjd (Montri la profilon) 2007-marto-06 17:00:06

I've ordered an en-eo dictionary, but it hasn't arrived. Occasionally, I've come across words or concepts that I can't find in the Reta Vortaro or La Vortaro. For example, in one of the exchanges, I wanted to say "well-founded" and "to make false", so I went with bonfonda and malverigi. (They may not be neologisms, I just don't have a dictionary that has them.)

So, two questions: how acceptable is it to create words from well-established roots and are there any better sources of english-esperanto translations on the web?

Islander (Montri la profilon) 2007-marto-06 17:24:33

Reading the grammar tells us that bon-, mal- and -ig- are acceptable affixes and the words you have listed should be correct.

However, what we need to determine is if those are pure words or just expressions in which case, translation becomes a lot more difficult.

awake (Montri la profilon) 2007-marto-06 17:47:07

Word building is the essence of esperanto. It's the whole point of the affix system. With a relatively small core vocabulary you can build a much larger vocabulary through the use of affixes.

You also see compounding of root words as a common feature of Eo. For example, birdokanto (bird song) and kantobirdo (a songbird). As long your combination is clear, it should be o.k.

However, I would caution to resist the urge to do this too much. Combinations of root words can become unwieldly and confusing.

So, while birdokanto is certainly correct, so is birda kanto. It's not always necessary to make a compound word when a combination of multiple words will suffice. Often the latter is preferable, as it aids in clarity.

Ultimately though, it's a stylistic choice. If you successfully communicate the idea, then you're probably doing o.k.

for your examples:

malverigi certainly is a proper word which means "to make not true". You could also say falsi which means to falsify.

I don't think the word fonda would mean founded though. I *think* (and if I'm' wrong I'm sure someone will correct me) that fonda would be used in a different context. It means describing a quality related to the foundation of something

One might say fonda mono which would translate as "money for the establishment of something" (a trust, a foundation, etc...)

What you would want, for well founded, is to use the participle -ita

thus Liaj kialoj estis bone fonditaj = His reasons were well founded.

I hope that makes sense. ridulo.gif

mccambjd:I've ordered an en-eo dictionary, but it hasn't arrived. Occasionally, I've come across words or concepts that I can't find in the Reta Vortaro or La Vortaro. For example, in one of the exchanges, I wanted to say "well-founded" and "to make false", so I went with bonfonda and malverigi. (They may not be neologisms, I just don't have a dictionary that has them.)

So, two questions: how acceptable is it to create words from well-established roots and are there any better sources of english-esperanto translations on the web?

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2007-marto-06 19:48:14

awake:
thus Liaj kialoj estis bone fondita = His reasons were well founded.
Make this "...bone fonditaj" rido.gif

Not sure if I'd use "fondi". It means "to establish, to build something (on something) (being the first one to do that)"

This is certainly the root of saying something is "well-founded" in English, but I think the idiomatic expression in English doesn't quite match this meaning. I would probably say "Liaj kialoj havas bonan bazon" (His reasons have a good base/basis).

Compare with "senbaza", a common compound word meaning "baseless". I think "malsenbaza" is going a little far with the compound word, and "baza" could be understood to mean "basic", but with a little re-wording (like what I did above) you could still use the baz/ root. "bonbaza" would almost certainly be understood but since it is not a common combination, bon-baza would probably be a preferred form, to make the components clear to the reader.

awake (Montri la profilon) 2007-marto-06 19:57:11

*sighs* Thanks. I fixed it. ridulo.gif

erinja:
awake:
thus Liaj kialoj estis bone fondita = His reasons were well founded.
Make this "...bone fonditaj" rido.gif

mccambjd (Montri la profilon) 2007-marto-06 20:48:43

erinja:Not sure if I'd use "fondi". It means "to establish, to build something (on something) (being the first one to do that)"
Mi uzis "fondi" cxar la Reta Vortaro diras "fond/i: 2)(figure) Motivi, bazi: tiu opinio estas fondita sur nesciado de la historio..."

I used "fondi" because the Reta Vortaro has "fond/i: 2) figuratively, to motivate or to be based on: this opinion was based upon ignorance of history..." (excuse the translation of a newbie). This seemed to fit the sense I was going for...

But your explanation highlights some of my difficulties: "senbaza" is a common word and points the way to the more easily understood "bona bazo" or "bon-baza", but since I haven't read widely enough, I didn't know that!

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2007-marto-06 22:20:42

mccambjd:

I used "fondi" because the Reta Vortaro has "fond/i: 2) figuratively, to motivate or to be based on: this opinion was based upon ignorance of history..." (excuse the translation of a newbie). This seemed to fit the sense I was going for...
Ah ok, I didn't know that. I used lernu's Eo dictionary to get my definition but it didn't have the second meaning listed.
But your explanation highlights some of my difficulties: "senbaza" is a common word and points the way to the more easily understood "bona bazo" or "bon-baza", but since I haven't read widely enough, I didn't know that!
It's true with any language, though, that it takes experience to learn which words are usually used for what.

And you should cut yourself some slack, as well. You didn't know the word "senbaza" but what you came up with (using the fond/ root) was perfectly understandable, and that's the important thing!

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