fluent speaking

od boy-o, 15 grudnia 2004

Wpisy: 15

Język: English

Mendacapote (Pokaż profil) 22 lutego 2008, 04:07:10

Hi, Genna_StCloud! Do you speak any other language besides English? Have you ever read about short term memory, long term memory and working memory? The master key for learning foreign languages is indeed massive repetition. It doesn't matter how skillful and gifted you are, you need to solidly fix in your long term memory new words, phrases, idioms, sayings, jokes, songs, etc. They have to come to your mouth automatically, in a fraction of a second, and move your tongue with a meaningful and recognizable sound without hesitation. That's God damn difficult, believe me!

About “things to hook sounds to” you are absolutely right; we need to relate those complex sounds (words and phrases) to facts, objects, images, feelings, etc. But I never said you should stop reading, watching pictures, movies, or anything else. I only prevent you from translation(or should I have said "warn you against"?), that’s all.

russ (Pokaż profil) 22 lutego 2008, 07:14:16

You're not alone. Listening comprehension is the hardest part for me too (in every language I've studied, including Esperanto). I'm very visual-oriented and very left-brained grammar-geeky. Everyone's got their own strengths and weaknesses. If you keep practicing, you will get better, even if the progress seems slow now. Try listening to radioverda.com, perhaps - it is easier than Radio Polonia. Also it's very useful to practice in live conversation if there are other Esperantists or a club in your area. Paŝo post paŝo!

Genna_StCloud (Pokaż profil) 23 lutego 2008, 00:12:40

rido.gif Snipped to: Hi, Genna_StCloud! Do you speak any other language besides English? Have you ever read about short term memory, long term memory and working memory?

I've *TRIED* to study-- Spanish, Latin, German, Russian, Classical Greek, Esperanto, ASL, and Welsh. Am I fluent? NOT, though I can still carry on simple conversations in German, Spanish and ASL, and am learning to do so in Welsh. Passive auditory comprehension, via target-language music or TV is difficult even in my 'second-best' language, though I can follow Spanish and German conversations with "got it, got it, *strange word*, got it, oh that must mean--" functional recognition. I'd call it 70% comprehension.

Memory retention isn't the only issue in learning. I have a visual *processing* disorder. It means that it measuraby and demonstrably longer than normal-to-me for my brain to take in certain kinds of information and understand what it is. I may also have an auditory processing delay, but it's unclear how much the visual issue is compounding the auditory one.

Learning style and your ability to make sense of the world around you (auditory, visual, and kinesthetic input, among others) mean that you have a unique set of strengths and weaknesses. If you repeat the same phrase a thousand times to someone without an audio or visual processing problem, it's going to stick fairly quickly, depending on the frequency of repetition and the gap between each repeition. (Short term and long term memory as you put it.) The fewer the repetitions, in general, makes someone a 'quick study' at languages or math. (A 'natural' in sports.)

What helps me, or someone with severe auditory issues, can also help someone with lesser problems. Maybe we should start a specific thread on 'visual tips', 'auditory tips' and 'immersion tips'?

Since I've got some space left--

Try *Children's Songs* on CD or MP3.- This has been easiest to obtain in Spanish and the only trick is NOT to accept 'whatever looks good'. If you can hear the music before buying, look for things that have slow, clear melodies with very little sound clutter in the same tones as the speakers' voices. One singer is better than a chorus. I was very, very grateful to a bilingual friend of mine: she helped me pick out two CDs in Spanish that were clear. I listened to them until the discs went limp. okulumo.gif

*Record your own lists and simple descriptions.* I'm just beginning this in Esperanto, but the basic technique works for each language I've tried. Take pictures of your family, the rooms in your house, your pets, then set a timer for a short amount of time. Record yourself describing the things/people in the picture, and stop when the timer dings. Only record every tenth or fifteenth practice.

Joms (Pokaż profil) 19 września 2019, 17:19:36

Estas tre stranga vidi komenton skribitan unu tago poste mi naskigxis.

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Pokaż profil) 20 września 2019, 20:37:20

Joms:Estas tre stranga vidi komenton skribitan unu tago poste mi naskigxis.
Mi scivolas, ĉu la demandinto nun flue parolas Esperanton.

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