Mesaĝoj: 37
Lingvo: English
UUano (Montri la profilon) 2011-aprilo-02 03:45:40
Altebrilas:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SectYes! Thank you, Erinja, for doing all the work I didn't do. I didn't realize that there was such a vast range of usage between English and other languages; I was just focusing on the difference between the two words in English. And now we've all had an education!In European languages other than English the corresponding words for "sect", such as secte (French), secta (Spanish), seita (Portuguese), sekta (Polish, Czech, Slovak, Croatian, Serbian), sekt (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish), sekte (Dutch), Sekte (German) or szekta (Hungarian), are used sometimes to refer to a harmful religious or political sect, similar to how English-speakers popularly use the word "cult". In France, since the 1970s, secte has a specific meaning which is very different from the English word.[12]Thanks to Erinja for her explanations.
But this arouses a new question: how to translate secte/cult in esperanto?
As for how these words should be used in Esperanto...I don't know!
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-aprilo-02 12:29:13
I think that "sekto" is probably the most international term to refer to a harmful religious group, though it is at odds with what we are used to as English speakers.
The Esperanto dictionary here at lernu defines kulto as "a collection of religious ceremonies", and a figurative meaning of "great respect, religious-seeming adoration". I suspect that the Wikipedia hits for "kulto" were using the word in that sense.
I have probably used "kulto" incorrectly myself, not even thinking about it. It's a sure false friend with English!
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2011-aprilo-02 12:46:36
PIV 2005 includes in its definitions of sekto this modern sense of "cult": Religia aŭ religi-simila organizaĵo, prezentanta aspektojn de fermiteco, de fanatikeco, de potencavido aŭ de mensmanipulado. I translate: "Religious or quasi-religious organisation manifesting closedness, fanaticism, hunger for power and psychological manipulation".
PIV 2005 under kulto has only the older definitions, as religious practice or exaggerated respect.
Altebrilas (Montri la profilon) 2011-aprilo-02 15:39:49
darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2011-aprilo-02 15:44:24
Altebrilas:Mi komprenas tamen, ke iuj preferas "kulto", cxar "secte" estas aro de eks-membroj de religio kiuj apartigxas de gxi. Kaj oni plilargxigis la signifon por paroli pri afero kreita el nenio, sen deveni de alia religio.This is the English-language forum.
Altebrilas (Montri la profilon) 2011-aprilo-02 21:45:50
darkweasel:Sorry! I was speaking about esperanto and I didn't care I was not speaking in it.Altebrilas:Mi komprenas tamen, ke iuj preferas "kulto", cxar "secte" estas aro de eks-membroj de religio kiuj apartigxas de gxi. Kaj oni plilargxigis la signifon por paroli pri afero kreita el nenio, sen deveni de alia religio.This is the English-language forum.
I understans that some people prefer "kulto" because "secte" is a group of ex members of a religion who goes apart from it. And the word "secte" was used in a broader meaning to speak about any religious group even starting from zero.
qwertz (Montri la profilon) 2011-aprilo-03 08:20:17
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-aprilo-03 14:00:27
So no, it is not correct to say that every religion today began as a sect (an offshoot of another religion). If you meant to say that every religion today began as a cult (according to the English meaning of cult, not the Esperanto "kulto" or equivalents in other languages), then I also wouldn't agree. Some religions are nothing more than a codified version of folk beliefs that have been around for a long time. Also, "cult" has the connotation of the leader having some kind of control over the followers, and having extreme beliefs. If I were to start a new religion tomorrow, the "Peace and Harmony" religion, in which we all try to be as peaceful as possible, I wouldn't call that a cult (and also not a sect, since it's an offshoot of nothing). If believers in my religion are free to do whatever they please, and I have no control over them, and our beliefs are not extreme, then my religion definitely wouldn't qualify as a cult.
But it would be good if we could keep our forum discussions to things relating to the culture and language of Esperanto. However I believe we have defined the Esperanto words "sekto" and "kulto" to everyone's satisfaction.
Altebrilas (Montri la profilon) 2011-aprilo-03 19:04:07
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Esperanto
(see 1901)
But here, it is described only as a "philosophy".
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homaranismo] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homaranismo[/url]
ki4jgt (Montri la profilon) 2011-aprilo-03 19:35:49