K vsebini

fluent speaking

od boy-o, 15. december 2004

Sporočila: 15

Jezik: English

boy-o (Prikaži profil) 15. december 2004 03:47:38

i've been working on learning esperanto for about 10 months now, and i've run into a barrier.

i'm rather sufficient in the language to construct my own sentences and express myself on a somewhat high level of clarity, and i can read esperanto with no problem past the occasional word-i-don't-understand-and-need-to-look-up.  But my problem is understanding fluently spoken dialog. 

I ran into this problem on a much larger scale when i was learning spanish in school,so when i started esperanto i made it a note to put emphasis on audio comprehension.  And i did too...i always repeated everything i was learning out loud, as well as put it into sentences.  i also listened to different songs and stories as well as some courses with spoken dialog excersies (i'm working on gerda malaperis right now).

But despite this, i can't seem to even pick out random words from fluent dialog (for ex. a radio polonia broadcast).  Even picking out a few scattered words was something i could do in spanish.  But i just can't seem to get it in esperanto. 

Could it be that i accustomed myself to slow dialog and i become overwhelmed with the speed at which fluency is spoken?  Or should i devote more time to studying and eventually get it over time?

SEYMOUR (Prikaži profil) 15. december 2004 22:08:45

Well,i was expirienced the same too.it feels bad,but i could say that is part

of the learning process.just take your time,don't get desperate and keep in

mind that radio polonio as well as radio china they have their own stlyle to

speak esperanto(in my case i understand a chinese esperantistoj ke polandoj) because chinese use more basic pronunciation and polandoj

use words that i haven't find en la vortaro yet!.polandoj created this thus,

they have the advantage of more time than anybody.

mi advice take it easy and switch to radio china like i did and you'll see

the diference.

boy-o (Prikaži profil) 24. december 2004 01:59:41

dankon seymour, i'll give it a try. 

I never made the connection that radio poland is made in the same country that zamenhoff's hometown is in.  hmmmm...that puts it at a completely different perspektive.

i think i'll go check out radio china right now. plufoje, dankon!

mateno (Prikaži profil) 26. januar 2005 19:28:16

come to an Esperanto convention to hear the language spoken and listened to ridulo.gif

boy-o (Prikaži profil) 30. januar 2005 03:49:52

there would be nothing more i would love than to go to a convention.  but unfortunately there are multiple circumstances that prevent me from doing so.  it is on my future goals list to do so though, you can believe me on that.

Genna_StCloud (Prikaži profil) 21. februar 2008 21:15:24

Snipped to: But my problem is understanding fluently spoken dialog. 

You may be a largely visual learner (I am) or kinesthetic/tactile learner. that just means you need more time and more deliberate exposure. You're on the right track, though.

As an example, I was trying to learn a Buddhist chant. This has about as much relation to modern Japanese as between frogs and apes. It's there, but the explanation would take forever. There aren't any visual clues as such, it's *TOTALLY* unfamiliar phrasing with almost no inflection. Rote memorization is fine, except, what do you do when you get lost and can't even *hear* a point to pick up at?

Make yourself a visual clue, if you're reciting from memory, use *pictures* to associate certain phrases. If you're listening to the radio or a CD, give yourself a mental 'point' every time you hear a familiar word. (Even if the word is "la". rideto.gif ) Keep yourself motivated with mental 'bets' and so forth, becase that is the MOST frustrating part of learning a language to me.

Don't expect immediate results, and build up from the small steps. In my case, very, very small steps. Our study group worked in the 'slow' version, and the main group worked in the 'fast' version. After many months, I could at least follow enough to keep my place if I tripped over the (inevitable) word.

Some people just don't do well with auditory learning.

Miland (Prikaži profil) 21. februar 2008 21:29:24

You might find it useful to follow a written and spoken text simultaneously to train your ears to the sound. Courses like Jen Nia Mondo 2 gradually build up speed. Also on China radio international(http://esperanto.cri.cn/) you can often get text on the screen with sound read aloud, that may help. Last but not least, try the Tiel Sonis CDs containing numerous speeches from congresses (but these are sound only).

annadahlqvist (Prikaži profil) 21. februar 2008 23:26:27

I am also a visual learner and find it very difficult to understand and learn without some form of visual support. Now, I don't understand spoken Esperanto either, but more generally, I have found it very useful to practise hearing skills through reading a text first, or at least some sort of summary to know a few words that ought to occur in the text once I listen to it. Most of the time, early in the learning process, I tend to "write" the words in my mind as I listen, it might work, but takes a lot of concentration. Or like when I try to hear what they sing about in a song(English), then I write it down on paper, and listen a couple of times, once that is done, I can listen and understand everything and don't understand I didn't understand it before.

Mendacapote (Prikaži profil) 21. februar 2008 23:31:20

You must listen to all kind of stuff in Esperanto, it doesn’t matter if you don’t get a single word of it at the beginning. Try to listen to the same records hundreds of time (literally) and never translate any particular word. Sooner or later you will realize the meaning of those “missing” words you didn’t understand before. Does it sound crazy? Yeah, perhaps, but it’s the best dumb-proof method for learning languages ever! How did we learn to speak our mother tongues? Avoiding translations will certainly look harder and take a little bit longer, but at the end it will save you precious time not having to switch to and fro between languages.

Genna_StCloud (Prikaži profil) 22. februar 2008 02:45:04

Snipped to: Avoiding translations will certainly look harder and take a little bit longer, but at the end it will save you precious time not having to switch to and fro between languages.[/quote]I agree *somewhat*, but there's more involved than just massive repetition to compensate for a lack of facility. Some people have processing issues that make that method not only unlikely to succeed but counterproductive to the student. I'm not saying to even use *print*, unless it is Esperanto, as in a transcript. Even looking at the picture while listening to the audio parts of Ana Pana *IS* helpful, without relying on English. If there's nothing for the student to 'hook' the sound to, it doesn't have any meaning.

Above all, BE PATIENT WITH YOURSELF. You learned to speak your native language, and you *CAN* learn many more. Once you find things that help you, each later study session becomes just that much easier.

I actually keep a 'diary' of study notes. Things that may affect my ability to retain information include time of day, how long before/after my last meal, whether there is music or television noise in the background, and more. I try especially hard to note the things I notice that make retention better and easier.

Nazaj na začetek