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Somebody posted songs in lidepla on my fb page.

od philodice, 13. februar 2011

Sporočila: 17

Jezik: English

philodice (Prikaži profil) 13. februar 2011 13:52:41

So I thought...
Why bother with another language? Everybody already speaks Esperanto, right?
Well, not really. But a language already being taught in schools has a bit of a head start on a language that is not even finished being invented yet.
Kiel diras, " Sounds like betting on a pony that just entered a race, which race began years ago." En la Esperanton?
Would they not accomplish the goal of one language more quickly by learning Esperanto, and teaching that to people instead of causing this Tower of Babel like confusion? It seems to me, that making other conlangs is a waste of time. They should learn logban if they want to do that...

erinja (Prikaži profil) 13. februar 2011 17:10:32

Looks like this lidepla thing is created by a small community of people who seem to be already familiar with Esperanto. They see lidepla as being next in the succession of languages (Esperanto, Ido, Novial, etc)

It's a little annoying that they seem to be advertising their thing by posting to websites of known Esperantists but I would just ignore it. As for the language itself - if it makes them happy to develop their own language, that's not really my problem.

Genjix (Prikaži profil) 14. februar 2011 08:22:41

i know its bloody outrageous somebody should put these people out of their misery why they . challenging the established order! when will govrenment step up and enforce the law.

esperanto already is here to stay folks. its literally spoken by tens of people worldwide. the world revolution is imminent.

T0dd (Prikaži profil) 14. februar 2011 14:07:27

philodice:
Would they not accomplish the goal of one language more quickly by learning Esperanto, and teaching that to people instead of causing this Tower of Babel like confusion? It seems to me, that making other conlangs is a waste of time. They should learn logban if they want to do that...
There are people who believe that Esperanto's failure to achieve it's original goal as a universal second language is due to its linguistic properties. They therefore believe that the only way to achieve the goal is to start over and build a better language.

Personally, I don't find this theory remotely believable.

It does make some sense that they'd try to interest Esperanto speakers, though, since Esperanto speakers are at least open to the idea of learning a constructed language.

I have to wonder whether, if some new conlang miraculously overtook Esperanto and seemed more likely to succeed internationally, many or most Esperantists would learn it.

marcuscf (Prikaži profil) 14. februar 2011 23:58:51

Somebody posted a bunch of lidepla songs on my Facebook page too. I did watch the clips, but I deleted the guy from my friends list afterwards lango.gif

I think constructed languages are interesting, but learning a language takes a lot of time (especially vocabulary), and I have decided that Esperanto is the only one I want to fully master. As for the others, I would look at the alphabet, the table of pronouns and that's it. If I like it, I could come back a few years later if it gets more famous (or at least, if its website stays on-line... some conlangs disappear as fast as they appear), otherwise I don't waste much time.

ceigered (Prikaži profil) 15. februar 2011 04:21:48

Genjix:i know its bloody outrageous somebody should put these people out of their misery why they . challenging the established order! when will govrenment step up and enforce the law.

esperanto already is here to stay folks. its literally spoken by tens of people worldwide. the world revolution is imminent.
BAHAHA!
I personally think people should be able to make their languages, and EO ain't good enough for "this is the only international language we're having you dirty revolutionary dogs". We after all don't discourage kids from making a mud pie (provided they don't track said mud through house), simply because that mud pie isn't of the (perceived) quality of a real pie made by a professional chef. Otherwise EO shouldn't have been made either.

But, on the topic of this "Lingwa de Planeta" which I've just heard of now thanks to you lot, I believe "FFS" sums up my opinion.

DON'T ANY OF THESE PEOPLE FREAKING PAY ATTENTION TO OTHER CONLANGS?! It seriously is a freaking mouse wheel at the moment. Arbitrary stealing of roots just looks bloody unnatural. If we're going to use "English, German, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, Russian, Hindi, Arabic, and Persian" roots, then why not just go "OK, 8 of those 10 languages are Indoeuropean, so why not just use simiplified IE roots as opposed to making things hard and irregular"? Otherwise you'll have 20,000 bajillion cognates in the same language which all come from the same word anyway.

Basically, what I want to say, is that if we're gonna make new languages, we need to actually improve on the way we're making them. As far as I'm concerned this goes in my list of "courtesy-international languages" - not really international, just minor skin deep changes to look international.

"Swaagat! Fo unitaa de Arda!" is a slap in the face for me anyway. It's like Grimm's law, Latin and Sanskrit got hammered at a party and did unspeakable things before waking up the next day and trying to remember what happened.

My angry rant over.

I also disagree with one of their ideas about their language. "2) the idea that this will be an a posteriori language unifying 10-12 most spoken world languages and including many non-European elements.". This rarely happens, if at all. Normally, two dominant languages merge, or one dominant language takes many foreign influences into it first colloquially and the officially (e.g. English and Anglo-Norman French's merger). EO I believe is more realistic, as a sort of Latinido with foreign influences (a bit like Romantsch if that's its name).

Positive side, the language has a sort of natural grammar, but suffers from the etymology of the language.

erinja (Prikaži profil) 15. februar 2011 19:21:02

I almost think that if you're going to blend together roots from too many languages, then you might as well just make an a priori language instead. Most monolingual people would recognize only a small percentage of the roots in any language that had a truly international vocabulary, so why not just make it 0% and have everyone understand the same 0% from the start? It also makes things look much less cobbled together.

bartlett22183 (Prikaži profil) 15. februar 2011 19:47:10

T0dd:
philodice:
Would they not accomplish the goal of one language more quickly by learning Esperanto, and teaching that to people instead of causing this Tower of Babel like confusion? It seems to me, that making other conlangs is a waste of time. They should learn logban if they want to do that...
There are people who believe that Esperanto's failure to achieve it's original goal as a universal second language is due to its linguistic properties. They therefore believe that the only way to achieve the goal is to start over and build a better language.

Personally, I don't find this theory remotely believable.

{trim}
Having been around the constructed international auxiliary language (conIAL) scene for quite a few years now (I do not call myself an Esperantist, although I can read much of it), I have to agree with T0dd here. It is not the linguistic characteristics of a conIAL which are the sole determinant of "success," and probably not even the most important determinant. I have addressed many of these issues in my essay "Thoughts on IAL Success" (URL available on request). My personal conclusion, after many years, is that the only conIALs with any real "hope" of overcoming the juggernaut of English are Esperanto (far in the lead of any others), Interlingua, and remotely possibly Ido, the latter two mostly having any chance at all among "western" countries.

Paŭlo

darkweasel (Prikaži profil) 15. februar 2011 19:56:27

bartlett22183:"Thoughts on IAL Success" (URL available on request).
... or on a simple Google search for this title. lango.gif

Miland (Prikaži profil) 15. februar 2011 20:28:14

bartlett22183:I have addressed many of these issues in my essay "Thoughts on IAL Success"
"Thoughts on IAL Success" is an interesting essay. The only reservation I would have is that possibly you underestimate the importance of the interna ideo in the history of Esperanto, though you do credit it with giving the language an "extra boost".
The generation of Esperantists born after Zamenhof, like William Auld (who won a Nobel literature nomination) are also worth reading. You may find his letter to Floyd Hardin of interest. And, by all means continue with your study of Esperanto!

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