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Esperanto slang?

ya WeekzGod, 9 Juni 2014

Ujumbe: 40

hugha: English

Metsis (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 29 Machi 2019 7:02:05 asubuhi

ursego:
I am also looking for a way to say "dude." GoogleTranslate says "ulo" (person), which is sort of like "guy." But I am thinking that you need to form the (affectionate) diminutive of that word to get the proper sense of "dude." How to achieve this? How, also, to achieve diminutives of friends' names? We have "paĉjo" and "panjo" (from "patro" and "patrino") for "dad" and "mom," but how to turn "Robert" into "Bob," or "William" into "Bill," or even "friend" into "buddy," for example?
I like to remark, that use and construction of affectionate or diminutive expressions is very culture-bound. I.e. in one language you may change guy to dude, but in another you form a corresponding expression from the person's name, Robert to Bob. Even when the same language is used, the expressions are likely to be different, a dude or a mate.

Having said that you should ask yourself, whether you're translating a text into Esperanto and want to preserve the original language's feeling or are you trying to find expressions usable in Esperantujo.

I personally find the E-o diminutive forms awkward and rather misfortune. Ok, -nj is pronounceable but -ĉj less. Or maybe I haven't been in such social situations, where I would have needed those.

Robert → Robeĉjo?
William → Viliĉjo?
amiko → amiĉjo? aminjo?

but I'm not comfort with using gender-bound affixes in the first place either.

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 1 Aprili 2019 2:48:29 alasiri

ursego:
I am also looking for a way to say "dude." GoogleTranslate says "ulo" (person), which is sort of like "guy." But I am thinking that you need to form the (affectionate) diminutive of that word to get the proper sense of "dude." How to achieve this? How, also, to achieve diminutives of friends' names? We have "paĉjo" and "panjo" (from "patro" and "patrino") for "dad" and "mom," but how to turn "Robert" into "Bob," or "William" into "Bill," or even "friend" into "buddy," for example?
You can say ulo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto_vocabulary#Affixes says that you can say la iĉjoj/la injoj using the affectionate forms -ĉj and -nj, which suggests that you can say iĉjo/injo in the singular. I think you could say amiĉjo/aminjo for "buddy".

Metsis (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Aprili 2019 7:37:08 asubuhi

Hmm, what if one doesn't want to distinguish between genders? Amikulo?

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Aprili 2019 3:30:45 alasiri

Metsis:Hmm, what if one doesn't want to distinguish between genders? Amikulo?
For some odd reason, -ul is used in Ido to indicate masculinity.

To me, amikulo sounds like it means "friendly person".

Metsis (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 4 Aprili 2019 6:27:26 asubuhi

MiMalamasLaAnglan:
For some odd reason, -ul is used in Ido to indicate masculinity.

To me, amikulo sounds like it means "friendly person".
One of FAQs in all E-o forums, incl. this Lernu, is the perceived sexism. The argument for its existence is based on the fact, that there is non-diminutive feminine marker but no non-diminutive male-marker. On the other hand Idists had some bright moments (and some less bright ones), and they chose amiko any friend, amikulo male friend and amikino female friend. Initially Z participated in the development of Ido and thought, that this solution is better than his. Due to some unfortunate events the movements didn't got on good terms (to put it mildly) and all Ido-ideas were banned.

In that sense my amikulo is a misfortunate one, but plain amiko lacks the buddyness aspect.

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 4 Aprili 2019 5:40:06 alasiri

Metsis:
MiMalamasLaAnglan:
For some odd reason, -ul is used in Ido to indicate masculinity.

To me, amikulo sounds like it means "friendly person".
One of FAQs in all E-o forums, incl. this Lernu, is the perceived sexism. The argument for its existence is based on the fact, that there is non-diminutive feminine marker but no non-diminutive male-marker. On the other hand Idists had some bright moments (and some less bright ones), and they chose amiko any friend, amikulo male friend and amikino female friend. Initially Z participated in the development of Ido and thought, that this solution is better than his. Due to some unfortunate events the movements didn't got on good terms (to put it mildly) and all Ido-ideas were banned.

In that sense my amikulo is a misfortunate one, but plain amiko lacks the buddyness aspect.
What about vir-? There's also the proposed -iĉ.

By Z, are you referring to Zamenhof? What exactly happened about Ido that you referred to?

Metsis (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 5 Aprili 2019 7:34:20 asubuhi

Yes, Z refers to Zamenhof.

For a complete history of Ido you might want to read the Wikipedia article.

An extremely short version goes this way.

Disclaimer: This contains my personal perception, of what happened, and thus may not be the whole truth, but I'm not interested in any debate of the matter.

A selection committee gathered to select the official international auxilliary language. Esperantists thought, that E-o will be selected. However the committee saw, that while E-o was the best proposal, it needed some honing. Some esperantists were furiated, while others initially participated in the further development, Z himself included. But the developing committee got to internal quarrel and most esperantists left, Z included. The developing committee finally came with a proposal, that got the name Ido (the offspring). The return of those esperantists, who had participated in the development, was seen by the furiated die-hards as a proof, that nothing could nor should ever be changed in E-o, La Fundamento estas netuŝebla!

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 5 Aprili 2019 2:21:59 alasiri

Metsis:Yes, Z refers to Zamenhof.

For a complete history of Ido you might want to read the Wikipedia article.

An extremely short version goes this way.

Disclaimer: This contains my personal perception, of what happened, and thus may not be the whole truth, but I'm not interested in any debate of the matter.

A selection committee gathered to select the official international auxilliary language. Esperantists thought, that E-o will be selected. However the committee saw, that while E-o was the best proposal, it needed some honing. Some esperantists were furiated, while others initially participated in the further development, Z himself included. But the developing committee got to internal quarrel and most esperantists left, Z included. The developing committee finally came with a proposal, that got the name Ido (the offspring). The return of those esperantists, who had participated in the development, was seen by the furiated die-hards as a proof, that nothing could nor should ever be changed in E-o, La Fundamento estas netuŝebla!
Notice that very few people actually speak Ido.

Metsis (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 7 Aprili 2019 3:19:08 alasiri

MiMalamasLaAnglan:
Notice that very few people actually speak Ido.
That is my observation also. I have two wild guesses, why Ido failed.

All auxiliary language projects came to a halt, when the wwi broke out. The optimism got berried in the trenches. When the peace finally came, most of those few ready to adopt an auxiliary language had already adopted E-o. The big masses had other concerns.

While E-o has been accused for being too European branch-ish of Indo-European languages, Ido is even more, to the point of being a Romance language. So why would those, especially outside Europe, who had adopted E-o, switch to Ido, a even more West-European language, when Europe had failed in peace.

In marketing terms the market had shrunken and was saturated with a product, that wasn't clearly inferior to the newcomer. Therefore the newcomer failed.

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 8 Aprili 2019 2:23:41 alasiri

Metsis:
That is my observation also. I have two wild guesses, why Ido failed.

All auxiliary language projects came to a halt, when the wwi broke out. The optimism got berried in the trenches. When the peace finally came, most of those few ready to adopt an auxiliary language had already adopted E-o. The big masses had other concerns.

While E-o has been accused for being too European branch-ish of Indo-European languages, Ido is even more, to the point of being a Romance language. So why would those, especially outside Europe, who had adopted E-o, switch to Ido, a even more West-European language, when Europe had failed in peace.

In marketing terms the market had shrunken and was saturated with a product, that wasn't clearly inferior to the newcomer. Therefore the newcomer failed.
I have had the chance to talk to a few Ido speakers online before, and they seem to think that Ido is way better than Esperanto, but they won't say why, except for lack of an accusative case.

Do you have any suggestions for convincing people who do not speak an IAL (or any conlang) to learn Esperanto?

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