İçerik Görüntüleme

Esperanto slang?

başlangıç WeekzGod, 9 Haziran 2014

Mesajlar: 40

Dil: English

Metsis (Profili görüntüle) 8 Nisan 2019 17:34:00

MiMalamasLaAnglan:
I have had the chance to talk to a few Ido speakers online before, and they seem to think that Ido is way better than Esperanto, but they won't say why, except for lack of an accusative case.

Do you have any suggestions for convincing people who do not speak an IAL (or any conlang) to learn Esperanto?
Ach, but Ido, afaik, does have the accusative case (with -n as in E-o). It was initially abandoned, but later restored, when it was realised, that you need it in certain cases to make clear, which noun is the subject and which the object. In the usual SVO word order you don't need it, but in other you might (cf. lion vs. honey badger in a Youtube video). Remember, that word order in Ido (or E-o) is not fixed like in English.

I think, that the main Idist argument for Ido's alleged superiority is the principle of retractability, i.e. how you can always transform a noun to a verb and vice versa. This doesn't usually work in E-o and E-o's vortfarado, word construction, is actually a mess (but works in practice most of the time, and when it doesn't, you just have to learn by heart the exceptions in this allegedly exceptionless language).

Disclaimer: What follows is my personal opinion, that does not reflect in any way the standings of any organisation I might be a member of.

For the million dollar question how to make E-o pop or cool I repeat, what I have said so many times before. We need pop music with catchy choruses in E-o, blockbusters with dialogue in E-o and E-o porn (whatever that could be), so that the masses get exposed to the language and get interested in it. The E-o movement is too introspective, incestuous and people there think, that biographies of Z or anthologies of E-o literature are interesting ad infinitum.

It is not the language itself, that is interesting, but what you can achieve, get with it.

For instance you hear about an interesting Paraguyan movie, but unfortunately you don't understand Guarani, which is spoken in the film. However you can get the film subtitled in E-o, and the film will become a life-changer for you.

We also need business in E-o. Imagine, that you're running a small company and you need a piece of software for ,say, handling logistics. The local vendors have alternatives, but they are a little too expensive and don't quite match your requirements. Then you find a Laotian company with retejo, website, in E-o and they have a perfect product for you. Since their software is in E-o, there is no need to translate it, and you have your logistics software running in a blitz. You save time and money.

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Profili görüntüle) 9 Nisan 2019 18:22:23

Metsis:
MiMalamasLaAnglan:
I have had the chance to talk to a few Ido speakers online before, and they seem to think that Ido is way better than Esperanto, but they won't say why, except for lack of an accusative case.

Do you have any suggestions for convincing people who do not speak an IAL (or any conlang) to learn Esperanto?
Ach, but Ido, afaik, does have the accusative case (with -n as in E-o). It was initially abandoned, but later restored, when it was realised, that you need it in certain cases to make clear, which noun is the subject and which the object. In the usual SVO word order you don't need it, but in other you might (cf. lion vs. honey badger in a Youtube video). Remember, that word order in Ido (or E-o) is not fixed like in English.

I think, that the main Idist argument for Ido's alleged superiority is the principle of retractability, i.e. how you can always transform a noun to a verb and vice versa. This doesn't usually work in E-o and E-o's vortfarado, word construction, is actually a mess (but works in practice most of the time, and when it doesn't, you just have to learn by heart the exceptions in this allegedly exceptionless language).

Disclaimer: What follows is my personal opinion, that does not reflect in any way the standings of any organisation I might be a member of.

For the million dollar question how to make E-o pop or cool I repeat, what I have said so many times before. We need pop music with catchy choruses in E-o, blockbusters with dialogue in E-o and E-o porn (whatever that could be), so that the masses get exposed to the language and get interested in it. The E-o movement is too introspective, incestuous and people there think, that biographies of Z or anthologies of E-o literature are interesting ad infinitum.

It is not the language itself, that is interesting, but what you can achieve, get with it.

For instance you hear about an interesting Paraguyan movie, but unfortunately you don't understand Guarani, which is spoken in the film. However you can get the film subtitled in E-o, and the film will become a life-changer for you.

We also need business in E-o. Imagine, that you're running a small company and you need a piece of software for ,say, handling logistics. The local vendors have alternatives, but they are a little too expensive and don't quite match your requirements. Then you find a Laotian company with retejo, website, in E-o and they have a perfect product for you. Since their software is in E-o, there is no need to translate it, and you have your logistics software running in a blitz. You save time and money.
Ido does have an accusative case, but it is strongly discouraged to use it.

I agree with you about Esperanto needing lots of different usages, especially business. Maybe some people could pretend to be immigrants from Esperantujo and "only speak Esperanto" (but only if they just moved where they currently live). Maybe online advertising for Esperanto would work. Imagine if there were lots of ads for it on websites that provide good resources for learning it. Maybe UEA could do that.

Metsis (Profili görüntüle) 12 Nisan 2019 09:59:12

Well, I volunteered for the upcoming UK in Lahti already last autumn. Having not attended any UK before I asked, how market booths are allocated. I was amazed to hear, that there is only one market booth, Libroservo, that is run by UEA. Despite the name they are selling also other things than books.

You may apply to get your products for sale there (the instructions are on the UEA's site), but the process seemed to be quite complicated and above all they stated, that the products must have a clear and outspoken (my words) connection to E-o. What products are such? Obviously different kind of books in E-o, music sung in E-o and... ?? Except now days you consume music mostly either by listening to stream or by downloading. No physical recordings are involved. They are also selling backpacks, pins and postcards with E-o logos, so I guess those too count having a clear E-o connection. But that's it.

To tell the thruth a congress isn't the right arena for selling products aimed for businesses. But there most certainly are consumer products (e.g. why not condomes with green E-o stars or something), that third parties could sell. Note, it's not something UEA should do, but they could provide an opportunity for others to do.

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Profili görüntüle) 13 Nisan 2019 15:25:01

Metsis:Well, I volunteered for the upcoming UK in Lahti already last autumn. Having not attended any UK before I asked, how market booths are allocated. I was amazed to hear, that there is only one market booth, Libroservo, that is run by UEA. Despite the name they are selling also other things than books.

You may apply to get your products for sale there (the instructions are on the UEA's site), but the process seemed to be quite complicated and above all they stated, that the products must have a clear and outspoken (my words) connection to E-o. What products are such? Obviously different kind of books in E-o, music sung in E-o and... ?? Except now days you consume music mostly either by listening to stream or by downloading. No physical recordings are involved. They are also selling backpacks, pins and postcards with E-o logos, so I guess those too count having a clear E-o connection. But that's it.

To tell the thruth a congress isn't the right arena for selling products aimed for businesses. But there most certainly are consumer products (e.g. why not condomes with green E-o stars or something), that third parties could sell. Note, it's not something UEA should do, but they could provide an opportunity for others to do.
I meant advertisements for the language itself that are in other languages and are not targeted at Esperantistoj.

Серёга (Profili görüntüle) 13 Nisan 2019 16:46:26

Ne krokodilu!
En la suplemento de via profilo:
"Kiel diras mia nomo, mi malamas la anglan. Bedaŭrinde, mi denaske parolas ĝin. Kial homoj pensas, ke Esperanto estas nek lerninda nek lernenda? Ĉu homoj ne konas Esperanton? Bonvole diru pri Esperanto al la homoj, kiujn vi konas."
Por tute ne krokodili vi povas skribi:
... ke Esperanto ne estas nek lerninda nek lernenda?

... ke Esperanto estas nelerninda, nelernenda?

sergejm (Profili görüntüle) 13 Nisan 2019 21:02:33

Серёга:Por tute ne krokodili vi povas skribi:
... ke Esperanto ne estas nek lerninda nek lernenda?

... ke Esperanto estas nelerninda, nelernenda?
En Esperanto mankas t. n. "duobla neado", via unua propono estas rusismo.

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Profili görüntüle) 16 Nisan 2019 14:01:06

Серёга:Ne krokodilu!
En la suplemento de via profilo:
"Kiel diras mia nomo, mi malamas la anglan. Bedaŭrinde, mi denaske parolas ĝin. Kial homoj pensas, ke Esperanto estas nek lerninda nek lernenda? Ĉu homoj ne konas Esperanton? Bonvole diru pri Esperanto al la homoj, kiujn vi konas."
Por tute ne krokodili vi povas skribi:
... ke Esperanto ne estas nek lerninda nek lernenda?

... ke Esperanto estas nelerninda, nelernenda?
Mi bedaŭras krokodili. Kiel sergejm diris, ne estas duobla neado en Esperanto.

MiMalamasLaAnglan (Profili görüntüle) 17 Nisan 2019 14:44:04

Mi ne komprenas tiujn mallongigajn vortojn.

walfino (Profili görüntüle) 11 Mayıs 2019 12:04:26

Alia ekzemplo (kiun mi lernis en la lasta Komuna Seminario) "fajfas" povas signifi ne nur fajfas sed ankaŭ "mi ne zorgas pri tio". Mi ne estas certa se tio estas ofte videbla uzado.

Kaj kial temo pri slango iĝas pri Ido?!

Another example (which I learnt in the last Community Seminar) "whistle" can mean not only whistle but also "I don't care about that". I am not sure if that is an oft seen usage.

And why did a topic about slang become about Ido?!

Metsis (Profili görüntüle) 11 Mayıs 2019 14:45:43

"Fajfi" en la senco de "mi ne zorgas pri tio" apartenas al la parolata lingvo. Certe oni ne ofte vidas ĝin en skribo.

This topic didn't become only about Ido, rather Ido was raised as an example of a solution to the presented problem of expressing "hey, dude/pal" in a gender neutral way. I'm guilty for that.

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