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Fundamento

by Nesrad, March 15, 2019

Messages: 6

Language: English

Nesrad (User's profile) March 15, 2019, 10:37:40 AM

I'm studying the Fundamento de Esperanto. In rules 2, 13, and 14 we learn of three usages for the accusative 'n'. First is to denote the direct object, second is to denote motion towards, and third is explained in 14 in fine, as an alternative to the preposition 'je.'

In the Ekzercaro, I have come across two instances where 'n' is used that do not fit in the first two usages, and I wonder if the third usage applies.

§12 Georgo Vaŝington estis naskita la dudek duan de Februaro

§14 Kvar metroj da tiu ĉi ŝtofo kostas naŭ frankojn; tial du metroj kostas kvar kaj duonon frankojn

Would it be possible to say instead 'naskita je la dudek dua' and 'kostas je kvar kaj duono frankoj'?

amigueo (User's profile) March 15, 2019, 3:47:58 PM

Se oni ĝuste diras "Tio kostas multe da mono",
kial ne pensi "adverbe" kaj diri:
"Tio kostas kvar komo kvin franke"?

Aux pli strikte adverbe:
"Tio kostas kvarkomkvine frankojn"

"Franke tio kostas kvarkomkvin"
"Franke om kvar-kom-kvin tio kostas"

Ankaŭe, vi povas foreviti la ojnajnojnon kaj diri pli simple:
"Tio kostas na duono kaj kvar frankoj"

Mi dirus ankaŭ: "Tio kostas duonfranko kaj kvar no." Sed tiu NO estas tre multe malpli fama ol NA.

sudanglo (User's profile) March 15, 2019, 4:06:11 PM

Would it be possible to say instead 'naskita je la dudek dua' and 'kostas je kvar kaj duono (da) frankoj'?
Yes, but the use of the accusative is common in the first case and almost total in the second case.

Kosti is listed in PIV as a transitive verb, so the price can be considered to be a direct object.

PS Don't pay too much attention to Amigueo's contributions in this forum. He sometimes hits the mark, but usually his contributions are fantastical and not representative of how Esperanto is actually used. Unfortunately the forum doesn't seem to be moderated as it was in the past

Metsis (User's profile) March 15, 2019, 7:48:59 PM

Nesrad,

I think, you're better off, when you don't pay too much attention to the 16 rules. You will later find, that they don't adequately describe the grammar.

And you're most definitely better off, when you do with Amigueo's remarks what Sudanglo said. (Applies to a lesser extent to my remarks too ridulo.gif )

katriyatsia (User's profile) March 19, 2019, 6:09:05 PM

I'm studying the Fundamento de Esperanto. In rules 2, 13, and 14 we learn of three usages for the accusative 'n'. First is to denote the direct object, second is to denote motion towards, and third is explained in 14 in fine, as an alternative to the preposition 'je.'
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Metsis (User's profile) March 19, 2019, 7:18:40 PM

My experience has been, that you really shouldn't pay too much attention to the 16 rules. Consider them to be more a marketing slogan than a real description of the grammar. Read them once and move on to real study books.

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