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affix order

de Jafiki91, 2010-aprilo-09

Mesaĝoj: 13

Lingvo: English

Jafiki91 (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-09 05:38:26

so, earlier today i was explaining to my friends the wide uses of Esperanto affixes and how they can be combined. one of them then concluded that a "ransid little shack" would be dometaĉo. but then i thought that perhaps it could be domaĉeto.

so my question is, is there a general order for the affixes, such as based on emphasis or alphabetically, or does it just not matter?

RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-09 06:14:21

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ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-09 06:53:28

RiotNrrd: sal.gif
demando.gif

@ Jafiki91:

Well, affixes are like adjectives in that you add them on the in the same order. E.g., if you have a red and big pet dog, you can just chuck "red", "big" and "pet" in whatever order.

However, sometimes order does matter. I can't remember my best example for it (which wasn't too crash hot) but basically the more further out an affix is, less it describes the original noun and the more it describes other adjectives/affixes

Observe:

malbluhundo = the opposite to a blue dog
blumalhundo = the thing which is opposite to a dog, which happens to be blue.

hundetaĉo = the rotten small dog. (Could be a little dog that's a pain in the bottom)
hundaĉeto = the small rotten dog. (Could be a small version of a breed of dog that's normally rotten).
(someone might try and go as far as saying that "aĉeto" could mean "aweful to a minor extent")
((someone more observant might also notice that "aĉeto" is actually a word which means "purchase" rido.gif))

With "mal"/"ne" and various affixed adjectives things are a bit more important in order.

"dometaĉo" would probably be the better of the two for your needs. Mostly because "domaĉeto" could mean "the buying of a house". "Hieraŭ, mia domaĉeto de la dometaĉo kompletiĝis"

Alciona (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-09 08:19:00

According to "The Esperanto Language: Grammar and Commentary" by Major-General George Cox, affixes occur in their natural order:
... For instance, if we want to say "a tiny female kitten," we commence with the root kat-, giving the idea only of "cat"; then add -id- (suffix for "offspring of") kat-id- = kitten; then -in- (female suffix) kat-id-in- = kitten, female; then -et- (diminutive suffix) kat-id-in-et- = kitten female tiny; we have now got the root and all of the suffixes, and we might want a noun, so add O, kat-id-in-et-o = a tiny female kitten. If we place -et- after kat-, we commence by speaking of a "tiny cat", for kateto has that meaning, so katetidino would be the "female offspring of a tiny cat." If we reversed the three suffixes, we should get kat-in-et-id-o = offspring of a tiny female cat. This exaggerated example of building up suffixes will show the importance of placing them in their natural order. The student cannot make a mistake if he commences with the root and forms a word of each suffix in succession; for instance, hund-o = a dog, hund-id-o = a puppy, hundid-in-o = a female puppy, hundidin-eg-o = a huge female puppy.

47. Order of Prefixes. In like manner prefixes must come in their natural order, as:- Sano = health, mal-sano = illness, re-mal-sano = a return of illness, a relapse.
It's an old book, so it's a bit hard to read but hopefully this helps.

Roberto12 (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-09 20:45:45

The Lernu dictionary (Eo-Eng) gives:

Dometo = cottage
Domaĉo = shack, hovel
Barako = shack, shed, barrack, shanty
Kabano = shack, cabin, hut
Ranca = rancid

I would therefore use these words (plus maybe malgranda). But were I to use the root and affixes of the OP, I'd say domaĉeto.

Miland (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-09 22:00:01

Jafiki91:a "ransid little shack" would be dometaĉo. but then i thought that perhaps it could be domaĉeto.
Dom-aĉeto sounds like a deal in which someone gets conned into buying the shack in question, so I would use dometaĉo here. Eta domaĉo would also be clear.

trojo (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-09 22:17:35

Jafiki91:so, earlier today i was explaining to my friends the wide uses of Esperanto affixes and how they can be combined. one of them then concluded that a "ransid little shack" would be dometaĉo. but then i thought that perhaps it could be domaĉeto.

so my question is, is there a general order for the affixes, such as based on emphasis or alphabetically, or does it just not matter?
I would probably go with malbonodora domaĉo. A shack ("domaĉo") is probably already understood by most to usually be small, I reckon. If it's important to specify that it's small, I'd say "malgranda". I chose "malbonodora" for "rancid" because I figure you are trying to describe the smell of the shack rather than its taste.

Personally, I feel like if there could be any ambiguity by smushing together too many roots, or if the combination of roots may not seem clear for whatever reason, I will break the concept up into multiple words.

RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-10 03:12:08

ceigered:
RiotNrrd: sal.gif
demando.gif
rido.gif

I had made a post, then thought better of it. But there's no way to delete a post - you can only edit the text. But if you remove ALL the text, it won't let you save. So... had to post SOMETHING.

ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-10 03:27:06

RiotNrrd:
ceigered:
RiotNrrd: sal.gif
demando.gif
rido.gif

I had made a post, then thought better of it. But there's no way to delete a post - you can only edit the text. But if you remove ALL the text, it won't let you save. So... had to post SOMETHING.
Ah mi nun komprenas - I wonder if deleting's really a feature we need or not... Mmm..

And back @ the general discussion - definitely use dometaĉo - as I said before and Miland said, "domaĉeto" literally does mean "purchase of a house".

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-10 04:12:33

I have administrative rights and can delete posts, so if you want to delete a post, just change the text to "Please delete this post" or something like that, and I'll take care of it for you.

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