Mesaĝoj: 3
Lingvo: English
raashby (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-17 16:55:48
I am reading an Esperanto translation of a book originally in English, and three or four times I have run into a participle that has been turned into a new verb.
The last time I saw this I decided to write down the Esperanto sentence and look up the English original. Here they are:
"[Mia mano] sentas kvazaŭ ĝi forfalontus."
"[My hand] feels like it is about to fall off."
My question is not about whether this is a precise translation of the original, but rather: What would be the difference in meaning between "farfalonti" and "esti farfalonta". It seems like they mean the same thing.
A more general question: Is it unusual to create a verb from a participle this way or is this just ordinary Esperanto word building? Also, is there any grammar reference where this kind of participle-into-verb formation is discussed?
Thanks very much.
The last time I saw this I decided to write down the Esperanto sentence and look up the English original. Here they are:
"[Mia mano] sentas kvazaŭ ĝi forfalontus."
"[My hand] feels like it is about to fall off."
My question is not about whether this is a precise translation of the original, but rather: What would be the difference in meaning between "farfalonti" and "esti farfalonta". It seems like they mean the same thing.
A more general question: Is it unusual to create a verb from a participle this way or is this just ordinary Esperanto word building? Also, is there any grammar reference where this kind of participle-into-verb formation is discussed?
Thanks very much.
darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-17 17:10:06
raashby:It seems like they mean the same thing.They do.
raashby:The only usual form formed like this is -intus (we’ve had discussions about that in the past, just search the forum).
A more general question: Is it unusual to create a verb from a participle this way or is this just ordinary Esperanto word building?
raashby:PMEG: Mallongigitaj kunmetitaj verboj
Also, is there any grammar reference where this kind of participle-into-verb formation is discussed?
sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-19 11:31:40
In general, it seems a little overly pedantic (too precise) to refer to future unrealistic events with either estus -onta or -ontus.
Because the past unreal condition is often explicitly marked with 'ínt' in Esperanto, the simple form (-us) can be comfortably used with a present or future meaning.
Se mi estus riĉa - if I were rich
Se mi venus morgaŭ - if I were to come tomorrow.
The translation of 'as if my hand were about to fall off' might be rendered with 'kvazaŭ mi mano tuj forfalus', although 'kvazaŭ mia mano estus forfalonta' is acceptable.
As regards your question as to whether the compacted forms have a different meaning to the complex forms, I seems to recall that certain points were established in previous discusssions in relation to expressions with devi.
Thus 'mi devus esti farinta tion' was distinguished from 'mi estus devinta fari tion' and the form 'mi devintus fari tion' obscured this distinction. But perhaps I misremember.
Because the past unreal condition is often explicitly marked with 'ínt' in Esperanto, the simple form (-us) can be comfortably used with a present or future meaning.
Se mi estus riĉa - if I were rich
Se mi venus morgaŭ - if I were to come tomorrow.
The translation of 'as if my hand were about to fall off' might be rendered with 'kvazaŭ mi mano tuj forfalus', although 'kvazaŭ mia mano estus forfalonta' is acceptable.
As regards your question as to whether the compacted forms have a different meaning to the complex forms, I seems to recall that certain points were established in previous discusssions in relation to expressions with devi.
Thus 'mi devus esti farinta tion' was distinguished from 'mi estus devinta fari tion' and the form 'mi devintus fari tion' obscured this distinction. But perhaps I misremember.