I have been working on a translation of the Gettysburg Address. I want to publish it on Vikipedio. This is my third draft. After each sentence I will give what I was hoping to render in Esperanto. The last sentence, because it was a complex sentence was the most problematic.

Any comments and constructive criticism will be greatly appreciated.

La Diskurso Gettysburg
The Gettysburg Address

Okdeksep jaroj antaux nun, niaj patroj estigxi, sur cxi tiu mondoparto, novan nacion kiun estis koncipita en libereco kaj dedicxita al la propono ke la tuta homaro egale kreas.

Eighty-seven years before now, our fathers caused-to-be on this continent, a new nation which was conceived in liberty and deicated to the proposal that the whole of mankind is equally created.

Nun, ni engagigxas en grandego enlando milito por ekzameni cxu tiu nacio, aux iu nacio, tiele koncipita kaj dedicxita povas longtempe dauxri.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war in order to examine whether this nation, or any nation, likewise conceived and dedicated can long-time endure.

Ni kunvenis sur grandega batalkampo de cxi tio milito.

We have convened on a great battlefield of this war.

Ni venis por dedicxi parton de cxi tio kampo por fina ripozejo por tiuj kiuj cxi tie donis iliajn vivojn por ke tio nacio vivus.

We came in order to dedicate part of that field for a final resting place for those who right here gave their lives so that that nation would live.

Estas entute tauxga kaj kovena por ni tiamaniere farus.

It is entirely fitting and proper that we do thusly.

Tamen, en pli granda senco, ni ne povas dedicxi, ni ne povas sanktigi, ni ne povas beni, cxi tion terenon.

However, en a bigger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot sanctify, we cannot bless this terrain.

La bravuloj, kaj la vivanta kaj la mortita kiuj luktis cxi tie sanktigis gxin multe pli alte ol nia mallerta povo pligrandigi aux malgrandigi.

The brave people, both the living and the dead, who struggled here sanctified it much highly than our inept power to enlarge or diminish.

Estas por ni la vivuloj, male, esti cxi tie dedicxita al la nefinita peno ke tiuj kiuj cxi tie batalis jam tre noble progresis.

It is for us, the living people, on the contrary, to be right here dedicated to the unfinished effort that fought right here already very nobly progressed.

Estas, male, por ni esti dedicxita al la grandega, restanta tasko antaux ni, ke el tiuj honorindaj mortuloj ni alprenus pligrandigita rezolucion al la kauxzo por kiu ili donis ilian finan, tutan mezuron de devo, ke ni cxi tie alte decidas ke cxi tiuj mortuloj ne vane mortis, ke cxi tio nacio, sub Dio, havos novan naskon de libereco, kaj la registaro de la popolo, el la popolo kaj por la popolo ne pereos de la tero.

It is, on the contrary, for us to be dedicated to the huge remaining task ahead of us that from these honorworthy dead people, we adopt increaded resolution to the cause for which they gave their last entire measure of duty, that we right here highly decide that these dead people did not vainly die, that this nation, under god, will have a new birth of liberty and that government of the people, by the people, and for the people will not parish from the Earth.

Note: Lincoln used the phrase "government of the people, by the people, and for the people" but when I was thinking about it, "of the people" and "by the people" seemed to be repeating the exact same sentiment, so I chose by the people, from out of the people. By using "el la popolo" I wanted to convey the sense "drawn from the people" but I don't know if the pronoun "el" renders this notion.

Also, I found an Ido (I think) translation of the Gettysburg Address where it was titled "La Diskurso apud Gettysburg". Is the correct title "La Diskurso Gettysburg" or "La Gettysburg-a Diskurso" or--as in Ido--"La Diskurso apud Gettysbug"?

Dankon,
Noah

It's overall a good translation but there are a few mistakes here and there. I'm giving you my corrections and my version. Feel free to adapt/modify.

* * *

Noah:La Diskurso Gettysburg

I didn't know about the word "diskurso". It seems a good choice but I would perhaps stick with "parolado". I would also say "ĉe Gettysburg" or "apud Gettysburg". Written as it is, you are saying that the speech itself is called "Gettysburg". Which can also be true; I admit I am not familiar with this particular piece of your history. Finally you could think about esperant-izing the name itself (Getisburgo, perhaps?).

Okdeksep jaroj antaŭ nun, niaj patroj estiĝi

estigis (too generic, I wouldn't use it), kreis, konsistigis, starigis (perhaps the best choice)

I would also use "prauloj" instead of "patroj", I think.

novan nacion kiun estis koncipita en libereco kaj dediĉita al la propono ke la tuta homaro egale kreas.

"kiu konceptiĝis en libereco"

(koncipi = to conceive a child!)

You use "koncipi" one more time in your text, make sure you change that as well.

"kaj kiu dediciĝis al propono, laŭ kiu..."

Nun, ni engagiĝas en grandego enlando milito

granda (inter)civitana milito

por ekzameni

I would use "ekscii" here

tiele

tiumaniere, sammaniere

Ni kunvenis sur grandega batalkampo de ĉi tio milito.

"Ni kunvenis sur grandegan batalkampon" (movement: -n) "de ĉi tiu milito." (ĉi tio = this thing, this concept; ĉi tiu = this, this one).

Ni venis por dediĉi parton de ĉi tio kampo por fina ripozejo por tiuj kiuj ĉi tie donis iliajn vivojn por ke tio nacio vivus.

"de ĉi tiu kampo"
"kiuj ĉi tie donis sian vivon por ke tiu nacio vivu"

Estas entute taŭga kaj kovena por ni tiamaniere farus.

"Estas tute taŭge kaj konvene ke ni tiel agu".

Tamen, en pli granda senco, ni ne povas dediĉi, ni ne povas sanktigi, ni ne povas beni, ĉi tion terenon.

"ĉi tiun terenon"

La bravuloj, kaj la vivanta kaj la mortita kiuj luktis ĉi tie sanktigis ĝin multe pli alte ol nia mallerta povo pligrandigi aŭ malgrandigi.

"La kuraĝuloj, ĉu vivaj, ĉu mortintaj, kiuj luktis (batalis) ĉi tie, ĝin sanktigis multe pli altnivele ol povus nia mallerta kapablo pligrandigi aŭ malgrandigi."

Estas por ni la vivuloj, male, esti ĉi tie dediĉita al la nefinita peno ke tiuj kiuj ĉi tie batalis jam tre noble progresis.

"Estas devo de ni vivantoj, male, esti ĉi tie kaj dediĉiĝi al la nekompleta strebo kiun jam tre noble progresigis tiuj, kiuj ĉi tie batalis"

Estas, male, por ni esti dediĉita al la grandega, restanta tasko antaŭ ni, ke el tiuj honorindaj mortuloj ni alprenus pligrandigita rezolucion al la kaŭzo por kiu ili donis ilian finan, tutan mezuron de devo, ke ni ĉi tie alte decidas ke ĉi tiuj mortuloj ne vane mortis, ke ĉi tio nacio, sub Dio, havos novan naskon de libereco, kaj la registaro de la popolo, el la popolo kaj por la popolo ne pereos de la tero.

"Estas, male, nia devo dediĉiĝi al la grandega restanta tasko [kiu kuŝas] antaŭ ni; ke ni ekhavu el ĉi tiuj honorplenaj mortintoj eĉ pli altan klopodinspiron por la idealo por kiu ili plej komplete sindonis; ke ni ĉi tie plej solene decidu ke ĉi tiuj mortintoj ne mortis vane; ke ĉi tiu nacio, sub dio, havu renaskiĝon de libero; kaj ke regado de la popolo, fare de la popolo, kaj por la popolo ne malaperu el la Tero."

I think that Lincoln hit the mark right off in the first seven words. Four score and seven years is not the usual conversational English, and it has Biblical overtones - a man's life is three score and ten years. Therefore why not try for a similar impact? Qvar dudekoj kaj sep jaroj antaue ....

I love Esperanto's ability to crackle and spark by packing meaning into a few syllables which may take a paragraph to translate into English!

Esperanto is also a great orator-language:

Of the people ... konsistanta el la popolo
by the poeple ... farita de la popolo
for the poeple .. avantagxa al la popolo

I can just imagine the force and beauty of these line being delivered on that memorial day by one of our great orators!

I am inspired by Noah’s translation of this address! Translation is a great skill, requiring deep knowledge of both languages, and the culture of the non esperanto language. Noah has done a great job on a speech that is diffucult, because it contains subtle refences to American (Usona) history and culture.

This address is one of the most important in American (Usona) culture. When I was young everyone had to memorize it. Because of its importance, we should make great efforts to translate it as well as we can.

I am offering an alternate translation. I freely borrowed from Noah, and also differ from his translation in many places. I kept in mind several guidelines. First, be as true to the original as possible, without paraphrasing. Second, use as plain and simple language as possible. Third, keep in mind the popular culture of Lincoln’s time, including the pervasiveness of Biblical knowledge. I don’t agree with much of Christianity, but I have to recognize its pervasive influence.

I used two dictionaries, primarily. (1) “English-Esperanto Dictionary”, Fulcher and Long, British Esperanto Association, London, Third Edition, 1963 (originally from 1921).
(2) “Esperanto-English Dictionary”, Montague C. Butler, British Esperanto Association, London, 1967. I like these old dictionaries because they use a simpler style of vocabulary. The old-timers thought long and hard how to create new words and uses of old words. Many were Zamenhofa Esperantistoj.

I hope others may rework our translations. I am only an intermediate level Esperantist, not an accomplished expert, especially in the field of translation. I have interwoven notes and translation so anyone can see what I was thinking.

Here goes:

La Getizburga Oratajxo.
This speech is not just parolado – someone just talking. It is a major speech in American (Usonan) history. It rises to the level of oratory and has roots in similar speeches going back in history as far as ancient Greece. Regarding the Esperantization of Gettysburg, please look at the website Gxangalo, and see what it says about the politics of personal and place names.

Kvar dudekoj kaj sep jaroj antauxe
Four score and seven is eloguent and has Biblical connotations; a man’s life is three score and seven. I would like to keep the high level of speech, and the “punch”.

niaj patroj fondis en tio cxi kontinento
Many of the audience were of an age that their own fathers were alive during the Revolution, and may have been soldiers in that war. Also we use the terms Church Fathers and Founding Fathers a lot, so I like the use of fondi to translate ‘brought forth’. I think that ‘to bring forth’ is too idiomatic in English to translate literally.

novan nacion konceptitan en libereco kaj dedicxitan al la propozicio
Keep conceived and dedicated in parallel; that has more strength than a clause. I used the accusative case to match nacion, to avoid using a clause. Keep the speech lean. Propozicio is better than propono, in my opinion. This was not a proposal, such as a salesman makes. It was a forceful and “formal statement” in the Declaration of Independence, and there for qualifies as a propozicio in its technical requirements.

ke cxiu homo estas kreata (esti) egalaj.
Here we state, by indirect quotation, as it were, the proposition of the Declaration. We could say cxiu ajn homo to mean absolutely all men (humans). The plural, egalaj, with cxiu homo is supported – see page 61, section 33 of “Plena Analizo Gramatiko de Esperanto”, by Kolacsay and Waringhein, UEA, Rotterdam, 1985.

Nun, ni batalas
To engage, as a military term is “ek batali kun”. Since Lincoln doesn’t mention the enemy, just keeping the ‘batali’ portion retains the original sense. My second choice would have been “okupigxas”, but I think it is too gentle.

en vast(eg)a enlanda milito
Vasta indicates “of wide extent”. Vastega, very wide extent, in terms of geography, causes, effects, and duration long after the shooting stopped. Historians prefer enlanda (home-, inland-, native-) milito, because Civil War is a bad term according to Southerners, since after the succession, it was a war between two different nations.

por provi
This was a test, not a pop quiz. The nation was put to a test in order to see whether …

cxu cxi tiu nacio, au iu nacio, same konceptita kaj dedicxita povas longe dauxri.
In my dictionary, longe dauri is correct for “long endure”. Because Lincoln used the simplest words, compact grammar, and concise sentences – I feel the translation should also have these qualities. So, punch, punch, slice, punch!

Ni kunvenigxas
He uses the passive, so do we. He used present tense, we do, too. Kunvenis would mean we met in the past on this field. The soldiers did, and in that meeting “ili kontrauxis”.

sur gravega batalkampo de tiu milito.
He said that war, not this war.

Ni estas kunvenataj dedicxi parton de tiu kampo
He said that field, not this field.

por fina ripozejo por tiuj, kiuj cxi tie donis iliajn vivojn por ke tiu nacio (eble) vivu.
Tute tauxgas kaj decas ke ni devas fari cxi tiun agon.
Noah used tiamaniere, in this manner or way. I don’t think Lincoln was talking about how suitably the dedication was being done. He was hitting the nail on the head – it is fitting to do this deed. Estas tauxga seems to me to be English thinking. Esperanto takes a root, adds –as and presto, tauxgas. Simple, and crackling good for oratory.

Sed, in pli granda senco, ni ne povas dedicxi – ni ne povas konsekri – ni ne povas sankti cxi tiu grundon.
Grundo and tero are often used interchangeably and without distinction. However, grundo also carries the meaning of foundation or basis (fundamento), so we introduce here a double connotation that Lincoln may have also done – the soldiers have sanctified the foundation of the Republic.

La bravaj viroj,
In Lincoln’s time, they recognized men were men, while –ul- can include men, women and children. It is most likely that everyone in the two armies were men.

kaj vivantaj kaj mortintaj,
(I am not perfectly comfortable with kaj … kaj…, but it seems to fit better, thinking in Esperanto.) Esperanto adds a stark contast between the currently living and the already dead.

kiuj luktis cxi tie konsekretis gxin multe pli supere ol nia
Super conveys “above”, and nearer to God in the mind-images of Lincoln’s Bible oriented audience, better than alte, in my opinion. In my dictionary there is an example, “Tio estas super mia povo. More than I can do (of work).”

malforta povo pliigi aux malpliigi.
Malforta, weak, doesn’t say that the president’s ability to dedicate is lacking – he was invited for just that kind of occasion. He is saying, my power is good for this kind of ceremony, but the soldiers have done a more powerful job of it. Pliigi says increment or improve (the quality of sanctity). The root grand’ says the quality big. Can we make a big, bigger, biggest santification?

La homaro ete rimarkos, nek longe memoros tion, kion ni parolas cxi tie,
Diras would be appropriate, too.

sed gxi neniam povos forgesi tion, kion ili faris cxi tie.
In ordinary circumstances, the second cxi tie is not needed, but this is oratory, and as Lincoln repeated, so do we, to rivet attention on what happened here, here, HERE!

Restas al ni, la vivantuloj, anstatauxe, dedicxigxi cxi tie al la nefinita tasko
Sentences beginning “It is …” are so idiomatic in English, and I don’t like to translate them into Esperanto directly. The unfinished work remains, so we have to take it up. Male, seems to mean opposite, and opposites anihilate each other. Anstatauxe implies substituting our dedication to the task, in place of the act of consecrating the cemetery.

kiun ili kiuj batalis cxi tie gxis nun noble progresigis. Restas al ni dedicxigxi al la vasta takso restanta fronte de ni – ke el tiuj cxi honorantaj mortuloj ni prenas pliigxata devo al tiu kauxzo por ke ili donis la lastan plenan mezuron da devo – ke ni cxi tie superege decidas ke cxi tiuj mortuloj ne estos mortintaj vane –
Estos mortintaj is a complex verb form (future perfect?), as is the English verb.

ke tiu cxi nacio, sub Dio, havos novan naskigxon de libereco –
Nasko means a bearing of – a carrying through pregnancy. Lincoln wanted liberty to be born out into the world, renewed. Naskigxo means birth.

kaj por la estraro
Registraro – collection of rulers, dominators, hence government.
Estraro – collection of Heads, bosses, leaders, hence government.
I prefer the connotation of leadership/government over domination/government in this context.

konsistanta el la popolo, farata de la popolo, avantagxa al la popolo ne pereu el la Tero.

Thank you Noah for the inspiration. I have enjoyed trying to translate this speech and hope you enjoyed your efforts as much.