Mesaĝoj: 9
Lingvo: English
Oŝo-Jabe (Montri la profilon) 2008-marto-17 02:23:01
eb.eric (Montri la profilon) 2008-marto-17 02:52:40
Kia estas la kuko, varma aŭ malvarma?
In the ĉu question you asked, the answer is always yes because the two "or" options are opposite. It seems that the only way a reasonable person could interpret the question would be the way you intended. In the end, simply asking "Ĉu la kuko estas varma?" accomplishes the same thing.
If the two qualities aren't opposites, like green or red (Ĉu la kuko estas ruĝa aŭ verda?), the question is now obviously a yes-now question (I think). -- Yes, it's red. No, it's purple.
Kiu koloro estas la kuko?
Kiel aspektas la kuko?
Kia estas la kuko?
Hope this helped and isn't way off base.
RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2008-marto-17 04:31:23
eb.eric:Maybe...Kiel estas la kuko, varma aŭ malvarma?
Kia estas la kuko, varma aŭ malvarma?
You are asking about the state of the cake, not what sort of cake it is (i.e., is it a red cake?, a birthday cake?, etc.), which is what "kia" is all about.
The English sentence uses the same word (in English, of course): "How is the cake, hot or cold?"
eb.eric (Montri la profilon) 2008-marto-17 04:59:08
Maybe you're right though. I'm not totally sure.
RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2008-marto-17 05:19:31
eb.eric:I thought the answer to kia was always an adjective and the answer to kiel was always an adverb.It's funny, but the first time I wrote the sentence, I wrote it as
"Kiel estas la kuko, varme aŭ malvarme?"
I then had a sudden doubt about its correctness. I checked one of my textbooks and couldn't find a definitive answer as to whether "varme" should be an adverb or an adjective, so I changed it to match your original sentence.
But now I'm not so sure I wasn't right originally, that the offered answers should be adverbs to match "kiel". I'm still not sure, actually, and am going to have to root around in the textbooks a little more.
sergejm (Montri la profilon) 2008-marto-17 05:43:27
RiotNrrd:Kiela estas la kuko, varma aŭ malvarma?eb.eric:Kia estas la kuko, varma aŭ malvarma?Kiel estas la kuko, varma aŭ malvarma?
Can this make satisfy you both?
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2008-marto-17 13:30:23
But it is not clear that esti is a verb of that sort, except with an indefinite subject. We have a definite subject here, the cake. So the right question for a state may be Kia estas la kuko? See the first example in the box in
http://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/oa-vortecaj_vor...
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2008-marto-18 14:07:59
In Esperanto, when you include the list of allowable responses in your question, you use "ĉu", even though the expected response is not technically yes or no.
(we do the same thing in English; someone determined to be difficult could easily answer a question like "Do you want beer or pizza?" with "Yes")
I think of it this way; it's like a combined question, asking "Is the cake warm (yes/no) or [is it] cold (yes/no)?"
You will see these forms very frequently in Esperanto; use of "ĉu" in questions like this is very proper and correct; it's not some kind of new-fangled innovation to be suspicious of. In fact, you can even find it in the Fundamento, so it's definitely ok. For example, I found this sentence in the Fundamento:
"Ĉu hodiaŭ estas varme aŭ malvarme?"
It's very similar in format to the example sentence we're discussing, as you can see, and it uses "ĉu".
To mop up a couple of other issues - "Kia estas la kuko?" is a fine question, but different in meaning because the person can answer, for example "seka" (dry); the person is not limited to only two responses, "warm" or "cold"
"Kiel" is wrong here, for exactly the reasons Miland mentioned. "Kiela" is a bit pointless, since "kia" exists.
And FYI even if you wanted to ask in a "kia" form, specifying warm and cold as possible responses, you *still* have to use "ĉu"; that would be "Kia estas la kuko, ĉu varma aŭ malvarma?"
(analogous to saying in English "How is the cake, is it warm or cold?")
eb.eric (Montri la profilon) 2008-marto-18 23:16:36