Al la enhavo
Respondi

"to smile" and "to lean back"

de murakvo, 2018-decembro-28

Mesaĝoj: 6

Lingvo: English

murakvo (Montri la profilon) 2018-decembro-28 01:05:02

these are the two phrases i have the most trouble/frustration translating clearly into esperanto, every single time: "to smile" and "to lean back, to sit back (in one's chair etc)". i never normally think of taking loanwords, but i'd gladly take loanwords for these!

for "smile" (i don't like "rideto" because it seems to me, and to many other people, to be too vague and thus could also mean "chuckle, giggle" etc instead of only "smile") i normally write something like "make a happy expression" or "seeming to enjoy it" etc, but this gets extremely long. and for "lean back" i write "incline to the back of the chair", which also gets extremely long. i feel like there must be better ways to do this. i know that many people might see this and think "it doesn't matter if the end result is vague", but in fiction sometimes it's a huge, important difference between a "chuckle" and a "smile", which is why i'm frustrated.

what do you guys write for these, do you have any good ideas?

thyrolf (Montri la profilon) 2018-decembro-28 08:04:32

You indeed may take rideti for the friendly version, see vortaro.net (=reta PIV):

*rideti. Malstreĉi la vizaĝajn trajtojn, kun ioma disiĝo de la lipoj k malvastiĝo de la okuloj, por esprimi ordinare afablajn sentojn: indulge, cinike, amare rideti; la patrino ridetas, rigardante la dormantan infanonB; tri fraŭlinoj, kiuj honteme ridetis, ĉar ili ne sciis, kion diriZ; rideti pro embarasoZ; ŝi ridetis sub larmojZ; la lipoj ridetadis el la nigra barboZ

(the star means, that the expression is "fundamenta", kaj la Z means, that Zamenhof mem used this expression)

alia vorto estas rikani:
rikani (ntr) Ridaĉi kun malico: rikananta simioZ; en la florpotoj staris kapoj de mortintoj k rikanisZ; (f) el liaj okuloj rikanis la plej kolera mortoZ.


lean back: would "sin retroklini" a possibility?

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2018-decembro-28 14:21:47

Wells gives subridi for chuckle and Benson additionally gives ridkluki.

Searching in the Tekstaro reveals that subridi has greater currency, and it was the translation that I thought of first.

lean back - retrokliniĝi

thyrolf (Montri la profilon) 2018-decembro-28 15:56:52

vortaro.net also difines:

kluki (ntr) Krii kiel la kokinoj: (f) ridklukiZ.

But I found charming also the expression:

ridglugli

and just now I found in vortaro.net

glugl/i (ntr) Fari bruon similan al tiu de akvo eliranta el botelo;
(f) fari bruon de ridado nesukcese retenata.

murakvo (Montri la profilon) 2018-decembro-30 03:52:08

Yes, I know that "rideti" from the beginning is said to mean "to smile", but I also know other words whose meanings have changed over time. I guess it's just that, in the other languages I know, "small laugh" means something different, and I know it's the same for other people (my friend for example, who learned Esperanto via immersion and not any website or book, also sees rideti as "giggle, chuckle"), and like I mentioned above sometimes confusion between a "giggle" or a "smile" becomes a big problem so it would be a problem in the translated text.

Oh and there's also the problem of writing a "small smile" (ridetego?), as in "an upward quirk of the lip" etc.

I don't like borrowing words (especially ones that contain other root words - "retro" is made up of "re" and "tro" for example), because it makes it so hard for most people to read, and in many cases (such as "glugli") they're not in the dictionary someone uses at all.

But now I think "rekliniĝi" by itself for "lean back" would work, as long as it were clear the person leaned forwards before leaning backwards, and "subridi" seems like a good choice for something like "chuckle", thanks!

thyrolf (Montri la profilon) 2018-decembro-30 09:11:31

pardonu, sed retro- ne estas kombinaĵo sed radiko.

Reen al la supro