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Dialogue With Zam

de ailebol, 2008-aŭgusto-28

Mesaĝoj: 7

Lingvo: English

ailebol (Montri la profilon) 2008-aŭgusto-28 14:52:46

Saluton:

I asked these questions in another forum but I received no response. Perhaps in English, I will do better. Help, mi petas!

Q: Did you like being in school?
A: Mi foje ŝatis, foje tute ne
ŝatis.
(Where is the object of the verb?)

Here, my question is concerning the question and answer.
Q: Ĉu vi dum multaj jaroj uzas
Interreton?
A: Mi jam dum pli ol dek jaroj ĝuas
Interreton.
Why the present tense and not the past or
“have been enjoying”.
Also what is the reason for using “jam” in this sentence?

Thank you,
Joe

trojo (Montri la profilon) 2008-aŭgusto-28 15:19:08

ailebol:Q: Did you like being in school?
A: Mi foje ŝatis, foje tute ne
ŝatis.
(Where is the object of the verb?)
The object ("being in school") is left out, but it's understood that that is what is being referred to. "I liked [it] at times, at times didn't like [it] at all."
Q: Ĉu vi dum multaj jaroj uzas Interreton?
A: Mi jam dum pli ol dek jaroj ĝuas Interreton.
Why the present tense and not the past or
“have been enjoying”.
Also what is the reason for using “jam” in this sentence?
In Esperanto, past tense is only supposed to be used for things that happened in the past that are NOT still happening. If you say "mi ĝuis Interreton dum dek jaroj", it means that you enjoyed the internet for ten years, but implies that you don't enjoy it any more. If you still enjoy it, you have to use present tense.

Esperanto doesn't have a true progressive tense ("have been enjoying"), but jam + present tense serves as a sort of surrogate progressive. That's why that's there. I read "mi jam ĝuas ĝin dum jaroj" and my mind translates "I have enjoyed it for years" (and not "I already enjoy it during years").

To me, Esperanto's tense system is simpler and more logical than English, where we frequently refer to present events in past tense, or future events in the present tense.

mnlg (Montri la profilon) 2008-aŭgusto-28 15:33:20

trojo:If you say "mi ĝuis Interreton dum dek jaroj", it means that you enjoyed the internet for ten years, but implies that you don't enjoy it any more.
A small correction: I would say that it doesn't specify whether you still enjoy it or not. While it is quite usual to see that kind of phrasing to introduce an adversative, the verb itself does not imply it.

ailebol (Montri la profilon) 2008-aŭgusto-28 20:25:31

trojo:
ailebol:Q: Did you like being in school?
A: Mi foje ŝatis, foje tute ne
ŝatis.
(Where is the object of the verb?)
The object ("being in school") is left out, but it's understood that that is what is being referred to. "I liked [it] at times, at times didn't like [it] at all."
Q: Ĉu vi dum multaj jaroj uzas Interreton?
A: Mi jam dum pli ol dek jaroj ĝuas Interreton.
Why the present tense and not the past or
“have been enjoying”.
Also what is the reason for using “jam” in this sentence?
In Esperanto, past tense is only supposed to be used for things that happened in the past that are NOT still happening. If you say "mi ĝuis Interreton dum dek jaroj", it means that you enjoyed the internet for ten years, but implies that you don't enjoy it any more. If you still enjoy it, you have to use present tense.

Esperanto doesn't have a true progressive tense ("have been enjoying"), but jam + present tense serves as a sort of surrogate progressive. That's why that's there. I read "mi jam ĝuas ĝin dum jaroj" and my mind translates "I have enjoyed it for years" (and not "I already enjoy it during years").

To me, Esperanto's tense system is simpler and more logical than English, where we frequently refer to present events in past tense, or future events in the present tense.
\

Trojo and MNLG:

Thank you for your very clear explanation of my questions.
I became frustrated with the project of beginner students learning Ana Pana & Ana Renkontas. - “Study groups, in various languages For beginners who want to learn Esperanto together”. Everyone, including the language helper, disappeared.
Now I have a place to ask questions and expect quality answers.

Gxis,
Joe

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2008-aŭgusto-29 15:35:56

ailebol:Thank you for your very clear explanation of my questions.
I became frustrated with the project of beginner students learning Ana Pana & Ana Renkontas. - “Study groups, in various languages For beginners who want to learn Esperanto together”. Everyone, including the language helper, disappeared.
Now I have a place to ask questions and expect quality answers.

Gxis,
Joe
The language helper who was guiding that seems to have abandoned most of her Esperanto activities; perhaps she has become busy with other things. But the "national language" forums are a good resource, and will get you quick answers to your questions.

Don't forget, also; when you do the Ana Pana or Ana Renkontas courses, you have a tutor. The tutor is there not only correct your exercises, but also to answer your questions; please take advantage of that and ask your tutor about anything that confuses you.

In addition, feel free to contact any lingvohelpanto with questions. You can find a list here:
http://en.lernu.net/pri_lernu/homoj_organizoj/ling...

ailebol (Montri la profilon) 2008-aŭgusto-29 22:17:56

erinja:
ailebol:Thank you for your very clear explanation of my questions.
I became frustrated with the project of beginner students learning Ana Pana & Ana Renkontas. - “Study groups, in various languages For beginners who want to learn Esperanto together”. Everyone, including the language helper, disappeared.
Now I have a place to ask questions and expect quality answers.

Gxis,
Joe
The language helper who was guiding that seems to have abandoned most of her Esperanto activities; perhaps she has become busy with other things. But the "national language" forums are a good resource, and will get you quick answers to your questions.

Don't forget, also; when you do the Ana Pana or Ana Renkontas courses, you have a tutor. The tutor is there not only correct your exercises, but also to answer your questions; please take advantage of that and ask your tutor about anything that confuses you.

In addition, feel free to contact any lingvohelpanto with questions. You can find a list here:
http://en.lernu.net/pri_lernu/homoj_organizoj/ling...
Saluton Erinja:

I am happy to hear from you.
I am studing and enjoying Ana Renkontas at present.
I became frustrated because I thought that taking the themes from Ana Pana and Ana Renkontas and substituting our own stories in Esperanto, as a learning tool, was a great idea. 53 students signed up for the program but they all disappeared including the language helper.
If ever there is a similar class for Gerda Malaperis, I hope I may be included.

corey (Montri la profilon) 2008-septembro-02 14:50:28

The Teach Me Series or has it is entitled: "Teach Me Esperanto".. I'm finding this book to be quite ingenious on how it breaks down the foundation of the language, allowing you to begin thinking in esperanto as opposed to translating verbatim; ah! the achiles heel to flow!

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