Al la enhavo
Respondi

Miliardo

de ceigered, 2010-decembro-10

Mesaĝoj: 7

Lingvo: English

ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-decembro-10 06:29:16

I saw on EventEo a line along the lines of "unu miliardo da homoj malsatas en la mondo", and was wondering if, like French, EO does not regard things like "million", "billion" etc as true numbers.

What's the go with things like "miliardo" & "miliono"? Does one say "unu miliardo da" or just "miliardo da" or both?

At first I thought it might have been like "duo" "trio" "kvaro" etc (duo/dyad, trio/triad, foursome/quartette/tesserad etc), but there doesn't appear to be such thing as "milion" or "miliard".

Cheers.

darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2010-decembro-10 06:44:23

ceigered:
What's the go with things like "miliardo" & "miliono"? Does one say "unu miliardo da" or just "miliardo da" or both?
Both of these are fine, but you definitely need da for every number greater than 999999.

Personally, I prefer the more easily learnable (but unofficial) unuiliono, unuiliardo, duiliono, duiliardo, triiliono, ... system. See -ilion in PMEG.

ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-decembro-10 08:31:43

Dankon!

Sounds like the million-billion-trillion-quadrillion system being implemented in most English speaking countries (can't remember whatever happened to milliard in English).

From reading pmeg, it seems like the everyday usage is to use million and milliard, but in mathematical contexts (not sure about financial), the m -> b -> tr -> quadr etc system is catching on.

I do like the looks of duiliono more than biliono though simply because it reminds me of Old Latin's pre bi- days (e.g. dui -> bi, etc (duellom -> bellum, du(o/e)nos -> bonus)).

(also, since -o words seem to need "da", does that mean something like "unu trio da esperantistoj muzikas ofte" is valid? They seem to be all in the same category of words from what I've read)

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2010-decembro-10 14:14:24

You wouldn't say "trio", you would say "triopo" (group of three, suffix -op-). "Triopo de esperantistoj muzikas ofte" (no need for "unu", I think people who speak languages with an indefinite article really over-use "unu")

ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-decembro-11 11:37:20

erinja:You wouldn't say "trio", you would say "triopo" (group of three, suffix -op-). "Triopo de esperantistoj muzikas ofte" (no need for "unu", I think people who speak languages with an indefinite article really over-use "unu")
Cheers for that, I had seen "opo" before, and was not sure what was the case, whether it was o or opo that one uses to make words that mean "group of (number)".

Also, why does "triopo" not have "da" after it?

tommjames (Montri la profilon) 2010-decembro-11 11:49:07

You would use "da" if you wanted to emphasize the quantity of three, and "de" if you only want to show the consistency of the group (Esperantists). Either can be fine, depending on what you want to draw focus to. More info here after the text "Iuj vortoj foje esprimas kvanton, foje ion alian. La intencita senco decidas, ĉu oni uzu da aŭ alian rolvorteton:".

ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-decembro-11 12:12:33

Thanks for that Tommjames.

So essentially it's rather free depending on what the speaker feels like intending. That's pretty cool lango.gif

That clears up a lot, since I had always though there was a strict rule in this particular regard, so I had become ultimately confused as to whether da or de was "better" than the other.

Reen al la supro