글: 13
언어: English
Dodge (프로필 보기) 2007년 3월 28일 오전 2:31:35
I've listened to the sound files on the site and I can't tell them apart. (Nor can I hear the difference between horo and hxoro).
Much the same trouble with "jx" and "gx." As well as "c" and "s"
It is very frustrating. Arg. Can anyone clarify?
~Dodge
Paamayim (프로필 보기) 2007년 3월 28일 오전 2:54:20
As for "c" and "s", I think the only difference is the amount of air required. C's are generally softer an S is a little harder. The same thing for "ĵ" and "ĝ", ĝ being the harder letter.
That's not an official answer, just my take on it. Hope it helps (assuming it's right)!
gcdude (프로필 보기) 2007년 3월 28일 오전 3:08:57
C is pronounced ts, or like the zz in pizza. Ĉ is the ch in church.
S is the English s. Ŝ is the English sh.
G is the g in give. Ĝ is the g in age.
J is the y in yellow. Ĵ is the s in vision.
To Paamayim, it's not really a difference in amount of air, it's the place of articulation. Basically that means where you put your tongue when you make the sound.
annadahlqvist (프로필 보기) 2007년 3월 28일 오후 12:08:12
What I do not quite understand is, if esperanto is supposed to be as easy as possible, then why not write, ts for c, tŝ for ĉ, and dĵ for ĝ? Or have I got it wrong, is it pronounced differently from that?
Islander (프로필 보기) 2007년 3월 28일 오후 1:53:46
What I do not quite understand is, if esperanto is supposed to be as easy as possible, then why not write, ts for c, tŝ for ĉ, and dĵ for ĝ?A clarification is needed here. Esperanto is supposed to be as easy as possible for everybody equally. Not all languages uses such combination and that may make even less sense for them.
orikteropo (프로필 보기) 2007년 3월 28일 오후 2:40:56
Islander:Zamenhof used these unusual (or, as with some, completely unique) letters so that it makes it equally unusual for everyone around the world to learn -- it means that no one has an advantage over anyone else.What I do not quite understand is, if esperanto is supposed to be as easy as possible, then why not write, ts for c, tŝ for ĉ, and dĵ for ĝ?A clarification is needed here. Esperanto is supposed to be as easy as possible for everybody equally. Not all languages uses such combination and that may make even less sense for them.
Zamenhof originally had a more Slavic-looking spelling system for Esperanto before it was published in 1887 (called Proto-Esperanto at the time). For this, see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Esperanto
Also, see here for a modified script, named Shavian Script (Ŝava Alfabeto), modified for use with Esperanto:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavian_alphabet
erinja (프로필 보기) 2007년 3월 28일 오후 6:57:43
Dodge:Thanks everyone. I'm still horribly confused, but I think that's more from trying to tune my ear than an actual lack of understanding. The explanantions were wonderful.The ĥ is pronounced like the ch in "Bach". But if you can't make that sound (think "kkhhh"), the letter ĥ is actually not that common, and steadily falling out of use in most words, so it's not the end of the world if you can't pronounce it very well. I think if you hear it pronounced well, the difference should be clear to you. I think that native English speakers should be able to easily distinguish between h and ĥ, if the pronunciation is good.
~Dodge
You might try listening to some of the stories in the library section. They have audio files and texts; see if you can't find one with the letter ĥ used in it, and listen to that. The speaker who does those texts has a good accent.