Mesaĝoj: 24
Lingvo: English
roint (Montri la profilon) 2011-oktobro-01 20:42:24
A second question: The Ethics involves a special Latin conjunction, spelled either "seu" or "sive", which is roughly translated as "or" in English, but it expresses an equivalence rather than an alternative, as in the phrase "God or Nature" (which can be conceived of as either God or Nature, Spinoza's "pantheism"). In the English translation of the Ethics, this is translated as "or" in italics, to differentiate it with the usual English sense of "or". I was thinking of translating it as "aŭ" in italics, but I was also considering "aŭsame" instead. What do you think? Using "aŭ... aŭ..." in the sense of "either... or..." does not work because this is done elsewhere in the original Latin, and the relatively unused construction "kajaŭ" ("and/or") doesn't seem adequate to me.
barat (Montri la profilon) 2011-oktobro-01 21:31:11
darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2011-oktobro-01 21:47:51
roint:I'm looking to translate certain passages of Spinoza's Ethics into Esperanto, and can't figure out a good way to express the preposition "insofar as", which roughly can be rendered as "to the extent that" in English. An example would be "We are free insofar as we are active causes of our desires".Do you like tiusence ke?
Miland (Montri la profilon) 2011-oktobro-02 10:56:56
For the second one, instead of X aŭ Y, you could have e.g. X, kiu en la pensado de Spinoza egalas al Y.
sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2011-oktobro-02 11:49:14
Ni estas liberaj, ĝis la grado ke ...
As regards the 'or' which involves identity rather than opposition (either or), I think Miland's translation 'kiu en la pensado de Spinoza egalas al' is very clear.
I'm not sure to what extent plain 'aŭ' can carry this meaning in Esperanto.
La lingvo de Zamenhof, aŭ Esperanto ...? Does that show Esperanto is the same as la lingvo de Zamenhof?
Balbutanto (Montri la profilon) 2011-oktobro-02 12:20:28
roint:An example would be "We are free insofar as we are active causes of our desires".Ni estas liberaj tiomgrade, ke ni estas aktivaj kaŭzoj de niaj deziroj(?)
Spinoza?
darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2011-oktobro-02 12:26:25
Balbutanto:Replace *tiomgrade with tiugrade.
Ni estas liberaj tiomgrade, ke ni estas aktivaj kaŭzoj de niaj deziroj(?)
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2011-oktobro-02 14:47:40
sudanglo:La lingvo de Zamenhof, aŭ Esperanto ...? Does that show Esperanto is the same as la lingvo de Zamenhof?I would avoid that construction since there are other ways to say that in Esperanto, in which there is no doubt as to the meaning or the correctness. I'm also not sure if I have seen that use of "aŭ" in Esperanto. Someone might want to look in their PIV. The lernu dictionary only gives aŭ in the form of choice.
I would say it myself using commas. "La lingvo de Zamenhof, Esperanto, ..." or perhaps "La lingvo de Zamenhof, nome, Esperanto, ..." or "La lingvo de Zamenhof, tio estas, Esperanto, ..."
AlexN (Montri la profilon) 2011-oktobro-02 15:27:35
sudanglo:OK, what about existing translations of the titles like, to say, "Walden, or Live in the Woods". I think that many books with names like that were already translated to Esperanto.
La lingvo de Zamenhof, aŭ Esperanto ...? Does that show Esperanto is the same as la lingvo de Zamenhof?
BTW, 'or' in both English and Russian has three different meanings: inclusive or, exclusive or and this one you mentioned.
darkweasel (Montri la profilon) 2011-oktobro-02 16:13:27
erinja:Someone might want to look in their PIV.