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What copyleft/ public domain license holds Esperanto language?

от qwertz, 7 октября 2011 г.

Сообщений: 19

Язык: English

IvoG (Показать профиль) 12 октября 2011 г., 7:35:42

barat:
What about NAVI langage from Avatar? It has CopyRight.
Tolkien's languages are copyrighted as well lango.gif (at least in theory)

edit: i guess any constructed language can be copyrighted if its author so wishes - after all it constitutes intelectual property sal.gif

darkweasel (Показать профиль) 12 октября 2011 г., 7:54:28

Perhaps it depends on the country you're in. According to your opinion, what kind of "work" (according to the copyright law of my country) is a language? Is it a proprietary intellectual creation...
a) ...in the field of literature
b) ...in the field of sound arts
c) ...in the field of visual arts
d) ...in the field of movie arts?

Perhaps the definitions in your countries are different and a language can be copyrighted according to them, however.

IvoG (Показать профиль) 12 октября 2011 г., 8:24:18

darkweasel:Perhaps it depends on the country you're in. According to your opinion, what kind of "work" (according to the copyright law of my country) is a language? Is it a proprietary intellectual creation...
a) ...in the field of literature
b) ...in the field of sound arts
c) ...in the field of visual arts
d) ...in the field of movie arts?
what kind of work is it is a minor point - what's important here is that it is in fact a "work" (in other words - it didn't exist before it was created by the person in question)! rideto.gif

are you from Austria darkweasel? i think your law's definition is pretty clear:

"2. Works of literature within the meaning of this Law shall be:

1. works of language of any kind, including computer programs (Article 40a)"

bartlett22183 (Показать профиль) 12 октября 2011 г., 17:29:11

There is also the matter of international treaties and conventions regarding copyrights and/or other intellectual property. For example, consider Country A and Country B, which are both members of a convention such as the Berne Convention. Country A, under its own statutes, allows Work X to be copyrighted. Country B's statutes as such do not provide for copyright of Work X. However, under the international convention, is Country B bound to respect the copyright allowed by Country A? Things can get quite murky, and there are lawyers and law firms (I know of one in the USA) which specialize in intellectual property matters such as this.

With respect to constructed international auxiliary languages (or other constructed languages), things can again get quite murky, such as the matter of Loglan and Lojban. Leslie Jones in 1972 published Eurolengo in the United Kingdom. As best I recall (I have access to but have not looked at the book in several years), Jones seemed to be claiming copyright on everything about the language, including its uses.

Some conIAL authors seem to want total proprietary control over their creations. On one level this is sort of understandable -- it's my baby, so hands off -- but this sort of thing may have helped doom Volapük. Schleyer wanted final control. In this respect Zamenhof was very, very wise in not insisting on final control of Esperanto.

qwertz (Показать профиль) 12 октября 2011 г., 19:12:48

bartlett22183:
Some conIAL authors seem to want total proprietary control over their creations. On one level this is sort of understandable -- it's my baby, so hands off -- but this sort of thing may have helped doom Volapük. Schleyer wanted final control. In this respect Zamenhof was very, very wise in not insisting on final control of Esperanto.
I could be wrong, but I believe Zamenhof were capable to take his beliefs apart and could active listening to others opinions regarding his creation Esperanto language. I assume he did it very creative and some kind of hidden and not full-blown. So he did active proof of concept actions to fine tune the concept Esperanto language. Contrary Schleyer did rapid creation of Volapük to make themselve famous. So Schleyer could be more afraid of being fallen at the hit to s##t list. That of course hinders every evolution and self-reflection and marks the end.
So Zamenhof could had been more patient (and life balanced and tolerant) during his work at his language project than Schleyer. What made Esperanto more sucessful than Volapük by the end means did gave an better "language springboard tool".

ceigered (Показать профиль) 14 октября 2011 г., 3:49:31

IvoG:"2. Works of literature within the meaning of this Law shall be:

1. works of language of any kind, including computer programs (Article 40a)"
Is that "works of language" = works that were made using language?

After re-reading I don't see if that could be applied to actual human languages themselves, only things using them. (Computer "languages" could be included in that category - but the example here of computer programs is that a program is a work of the language but not the language itself).

Either way, it's something clearly arguable in court.

darkweasel (Показать профиль) 14 октября 2011 г., 5:19:47

ceigered:
Either way, it's something clearly arguable in court.
+1

IvoG (Показать профиль) 14 октября 2011 г., 8:45:51

ceigered:
After re-reading I don't see if that could be applied to actual human languages themselves, only things using them.
it most certaily couldn't apply to natural human languages seeing how they were not created by anybody in particular or if they were - it was 70-80 thousand years ago sal.gif

contsructed languages are a whole different story - they clearly didn't exist before a particular person created them (Zamenhof, Tolkien, Ocrand etc.) so they are most definitely the work of that person (i don't think anybody will argue with this)! as i said - what kind of work is it is a minor point here - what's important here is that it is in fact a "work" and its author can claim copyright protection rideto.gif

::::

but you are right of course - it has never been tested in court so:

ceigered:
Either way, it's something clearly arguable in court.

ceigered (Показать профиль) 14 октября 2011 г., 15:21:30

True that. I guess then a lot of it comes down to what the author has described their language as...

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