Príspevky: 18
Jazyk: English
sudanglo (Zobraziť profil) 10. októbra 2011 11:16:22
In one interesting experiment, the difficulty of saying in which colour a word presented on the screen was printed varied according to whether the word was neutral or had an emotional or taboo content.
For example table or whore - because of the tradition of ĝentileco in these threads, I have refrained from using a stronger example of an English taboo word.
It would be most interesting to conduct this sort of experiment with choice 'taboo' words in Esperanto. I suspect that few words in Esperanto are really 'taboo' or have the same force as in the national languages.
sudanglo (Zobraziť profil) 10. októbra 2011 11:39:11
The control condition for this experiment, however seemed to me to be dubious.
Obviously repeating a word like 'functional' or 'wooden', whilst one held ones hand in icy water, is not congruent with what one is feeling - the swear word is.
But suppose, performing, the experiment in Esperanto, one was allowed to say 'malvarmega'or 'aj/aj/aj' repeatedly for the neutral condition thereby achieving congruence with the emotion.
Would the endurance show a difference between that and repeating 'fik/fek' or some other 'taboo' word.
sudanglo (Zobraziť profil) 10. októbra 2011 12:07:06
A quite different attitude might be characterized as the 'Top Gear' attitude - admiration for muscle, torque, power, precision, sexiness and efficiency of a language.
Esperanto seems to me to be admirable not because of any quirks or quaint charm, but because of its scalpel-like quality in handling meaning - its muscle as a tool of exact expression.
erinja (Zobraziť profil) 11. októbra 2011 22:04:24
sudanglo (Zobraziť profil) 12. októbra 2011 11:51:14
Nevertheless, it get's up my nose to hear polyglots gushing over the charm of the differences between languages.
It seems to me to worship style over content.
What really earns my respect is WHAT you can say in a language, not the differences in HOW you say something.
When I hear that somebody speaks 8 languages, my reaction is 'Oh yeah, and can you say anything interesting in any of them?'.
I am not impressed by someone being able to say 'I love you' in 8 different variants.
ceigered (Zobraziť profil) 12. októbra 2011 15:27:14
sudanglo:Touché, Erinja.What if the style is the content?
Nevertheless, it get's up my nose to hear polyglots gushing over the charm of the differences between languages.
It seems to me to worship style over content.
When I hear that somebody speaks 8 languages, my reaction is 'Oh yeah, and can you say anything interesting in any of them?'.Or it's just that putting someone on the spot and trying to get them to say something interesting in 8 languages let alone their native language is always a tall challenge
I am not impressed by someone being able to say 'I love you' in 8 different variants.
If someone said "oh, you're learning Japanese and Indonesian, say something interesting in them", I'd go "um... interesting... multiverse theory is interesting? Damn, how do I even think about that in XYZ language? Hang on, too much thinking time, they'll get bored.."
"daisuki desu/aku cinta padamu"
("I love you" in both )(at least it's more suitable than "pantat ibumu besar sekali, dan lebih berbulu daripada kambingku!", which is extremely rude, but certainly interesting)
But there are indeed many who think speaking a language is basically putting on an accent and saying some set phrases
erinja (Zobraziť profil) 12. októbra 2011 15:33:19
sudanglo:It seems to me to worship style over content.I agree, up to a point.
What really earns my respect is WHAT you can say in a language, not the differences in HOW you say something.
But in the English-speaking world, most people don't choose to study any foreign language at all. So if people choose to study a language, even for a reason that I think is a bit silly, I can't really criticize them for it. Choosing to study ANY foreign language is automatically better than choosing not to study another language.
Chainy (Zobraziť profil) 12. októbra 2011 18:31:29
erinja:But in the English-speaking world, most people don't choose to study any foreign language at all.Choice doesn't really come into it, at least in Britain. Everyone has to study at least one foreign language in secondary school. It is regarded as a compulsory subject.
Is it not the same situation in other English-speaking countries?
razlem (Zobraziť profil) 12. októbra 2011 20:37:53
sudanglo (Zobraziť profil) 13. októbra 2011 10:26:06
Choosing to study ANY foreign language is automatically better than choosing not to study another language.But it is not virtuous in itself.
Surely the value (over and above practical considerations) lies in the perspective it gives on ones own language.
And a lot of people will never get to that point since they spent so much time bogged down on the 'quaint/charming' iregularities of the learned foreign language.
Not so, of course, in the case of Esperanto, where one quickly arrives at the point of being forced to consider what one actually means, whether one has expressed oneself clearly without ambiguity, and how the semantic categories of ones own language are not absolute.
The experiments on how learning Esperanto may facilitate the acquistion of another language are interesting, but more revealing would be studies on how learning Esperanto improves your command of ones mother tongue.