Esperanto Persecuted
av 1Guy1, 20 oktober 2011
Meddelanden: 9
Språk: English
1Guy1 (Visa profilen) 20 oktober 2011 11:58:27
The article is at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2003/jul/...
and I thought well worth a read for those of us who have only recently developed an interest & know little or nothing of this.
Has anyone ever published a book on this subject?
erinja (Visa profilen) 20 oktober 2011 12:21:08
However, the excellent book "Esperanto sen mitoj" (Esperanto without myths) says that "La danĝera lingvo" overstates a lot of the persecution, and the arguments were relatively convincing to me. So I'm not sure how far I'd believe "La danĝera lingvo".
It's true that a lot of Esperanto speakers were sent to concentration camps, and that Hitler called Esperanto a tool for Jewish world domination.
But from what I've heard, the Esperantists sent to concentration camps probably weren't sent because they were Esperantists. It's probably because they were Jews, or communists, or had some other belief that was a crime in Nazi Germany.
1Guy1 (Visa profilen) 20 oktober 2011 12:31:43
erinja: It's true that a lot of Esperanto speakers were sent to concentration camps, and that Hitler called Esperanto a tool for Jewish world domination.I had heard of the Nazi's dislike of Esperanto. It was the existence and the extent of dislike in other countries that really surprised me.
But from what I've heard, the Esperantists sent to concentration camps probably weren't sent because they were Esperantists. It's probably because they were Jews, or communists, or had some other belief that was a crime in Nazi Germany.
ceigered (Visa profilen) 20 oktober 2011 12:49:24
erinja:There's a book called "La danĝera lingvo" (The dangerous language) that discusses this topic. I haven't read it.I saw this at the SA migration museum, in one of the displays. The local EO groups are really fond of it I guess - must add some risk-factor to the language, makes people feel like James Bond or Indiana Jones, speaking dangerous tongues
But from what I've heard (not much), the best I can make of it is that Esperanto was just positioned ever so nicely alongside every other thorn in a dictator's side.
Some Japanese guy saying that Esperanto were like watermelons (green on the outside, red on the inside), Hitler apparently alluding to it indirectly by referring to how the Jew (the Jew, as oppose to Jews? That's one busy Jew!) was trying to rule men by ruling their money and businesses, and then rule over the common man with an artificial tongue made to rule over them 1984 style.
I guess it's natural due to it's political "alignment", which goes contrary to the goals of fascism.
AlexN (Visa profilen) 20 oktober 2011 13:12:17
1Guy1:...attempts to suppress Esperanto & the persecution & even execution of Esperantists.Some statements in the are not correct. Esperanto was never outlawed in USSR. They just executed esperantists. The most probable reason for this is that Stalin hated Trotsky and Trotsky supported Esperanto movement. Because of this hate all esperantists were declared trotskists, which meant 10 to 25 years in prison.
Evildela (Visa profilen) 21 oktober 2011 02:34:54
AlexN:I don't want to play with words. But if something sends you to prison for 10 to 25 years or get you executed, "on the orders of the rulling goverment"... Then I would consider that as being something considered as being outlawed.1Guy1:...attempts to suppress Esperanto & the persecution & even execution of Esperantists.Some statements in the are not correct. Esperanto was never outlawed in USSR. They just executed esperantists. The most probable reason for this is that Stalin hated Trotsky and Trotsky supported Esperanto movement. Because of this hate all esperantists were declared trotskists, which meant 10 to 25 years in prison.
okybibuy (Visa profilen) 21 oktober 2011 03:23:47
Evildela:I don't want to play with words. But if something sends you to prison for 10 to 25 years or get you executed, "on the orders of the rulling goverment"... Then I would consider that as being something considered as being outlawed.Yeah, true. Even if it's not technically the same, it'd be functionally the same.
Pretty crazy.
AlexN (Visa profilen) 21 oktober 2011 08:36:18
okybibuy:Functionally it is not the same. Esperanto itself was not outlawed, and recovered very soon after the death of the tyrann. There were outlawed ideas in USSR, like cybernetics, genetics, etc. It took more time to revive them.
Yeah, true. Even if it's not technically the same, it'd be functionally the same.
Miland (Visa profilen) 21 oktober 2011 17:05:48