Wpisy: 18
Język: English
mnlg (Pokaż profil) 27 lipca 2007, 08:21:31
erinja:I have read that it is not necessarily wrong to use other prepositions before verbs (like "pro sendi") but that it might not be a good idea, because it could cause confusion since it is so rare.Then the solution would be to use those forms more often, to make the language richer and eliminate confusion.
putting "pro" in front of a verb doesn't sound good to me and I wouldn't do it personally.I'm not sure I would either, as I said. But on the other hand, I don't see it as a threat, I don't see it breaking rules; actually I perceive it as a way to provide more symmetry and thus more elegance.
In a case like "Mi lacas pro labori", you could equally well say "Mi lacas pro laboro".It wouldn't be exactly the same. "Mi lacas pro laboro" sounds to me like a certain job made me tired. Just like "Mi iras por manĝi" means that I am going to eat while "Mi iras por manĝo" (which, as you say, should be an equal way of putting it) means "I'm going for a meal". It's a subtle difference but it's there.
erinja (Pokaż profil) 27 lipca 2007, 13:38:53
mnlg:I never said that I saw it as a threat or as breaking rules. It just doesn't sound good to me and I wouldn't personally do it because of that. I don't happen to believe it's grammatically wrong. As I said,
I'm not sure I would either, as I said. But on the other hand, I don't see it as a threat, I don't see it breaking rules; actually I perceive it as a way to provide more symmetry and thus more elegance.
If the Fundamento didn't happen to use a word in a certain way, it doesn't mean that that use is wrong.You will also note that I made extensive use of the word "prefer", so as to express my own opinion on how I like to speak without passing judgment on the choices of others, which may differ from mine.
It wouldn't be exactly the same. "Mi lacas pro laboro" sounds to me like a certain job made me tired. Just like "Mi iras por manĝi" means that I am going to eat while "Mi iras por manĝo" (which, as you say, should be an equal way of putting it) means "I'm going for a meal". It's a subtle difference but it's there.So you could say "laborado" instead of "laboro", if you wanted to be extra clear that it wasn't one specific job that made you tired. I think that even with use of "laboro", the meaning would be clear from the context.
mnlg (Pokaż profil) 27 lipca 2007, 14:59:30
erinja:So you could say "laborado" instead of "laboro", if you wanted to be extra clear that it wasn't one specific job that made you tired.Oh yes I am perfectly aware of that, but my whole point was to underline the shortness, elegance and/or symmetry of using pro + infinitive, not to look for alternatives (Esperanto almost always provides alternatives anyway ).
I think that even with use of "laboro", the meaning would be clear from the context.That could be said for any solution really.
I just get rather uncomfortable when frequency or wide adoption of a form are invoked to justify keeping on the same track even when there could be new, original, possibly more interesting ways to express yourself, in full accordance with the current grammar rules. I will probably never say "pro" with an infinitive; I just think it would be neat if it had more recognition because it would provide more symmetry and all in all it would make sense.
markotraviko (Pokaż profil) 28 lipca 2007, 14:13:15
"Dankon pro via sendita adreso ."- This sounds like a colloquial way of saying what you have in mind.
I've been studying "Being colloquial in Esperanto" which I just received from the ELNA book service.
RiotNrrd (Pokaż profil) 28 lipca 2007, 18:40:25
markotraviko:"Dankon pro via sendita adreso ."- This sounds like a colloquial way of saying what you have in mind.Ah, yes, I like this phrasing!
I've been studying "Being colloquial in Esperanto" which I just received from the ELNA book service.
"Being Colloquial" is an excellent book. A co-worker (who I didn't know was an Esperantist until after I'd started studying it myself) loaned me his copy a while back, and I found it very helpful. Unfortunately, I had to give it back to him (it was HIS, after all), and haven't yet taken the opportunity to purchase a copy myself.
I need to do that.
erinja (Pokaż profil) 29 lipca 2007, 13:56:20
RiotNrrd: A co-worker (who I didn't know was an Esperantist until after I'd started studying it myself)This is really cool and I wish it would happen to me. Or have someone on the street recognize the green star pin on my coat.
I have heard wonderful things about "Being Colloquial in Esperanto" but haven't read it myself.
RiotNrrd (Pokaż profil) 5 sierpnia 2007, 23:59:58
erinja:I was surprised myself. But now we occasionally lapse into Esperanto at work, which is kind of fun. Although he has studied it much longer than I have, and actually took classes in it (I believe John Wells was actually one of his teachers at some point), he left it alone long enough - as in, a few decades - that I think I'm actually now more fluent in it than he is.RiotNrrd: A co-worker (who I didn't know was an Esperantist until after I'd started studying it myself)This is really cool and I wish it would happen to me.
Last week he gave me a book which he, for some reason, had two copies of. "The Esperanto Teacher", copyright 1954 (although my "new" copy is a reprint from 1970). If I am reading it correctly, it covers the case that this thread was about and the construction it recommends is "Dankon por sendinte ĝin al mi", where "sendinte" basically is translated by "having sent".
Sounds good to me!
Filu (Pokaż profil) 15 sierpnia 2007, 01:19:03
erinja:This is really cool and I wish it would happen to me. Or have someone on the street recognize the green star pin on my coat.Venu en Jelonajfon kaj ekskursu ĝiajn ĉirkaŭaĵojn. Frue aŭ malfrue ni renkontiĝos kaj tujtuj al vi Esperante salutos mi, vidante vian verdan stelon.
Oops! I tend to forget that this is the english forum.
So here it goes again:
Come on over in Yellowknife and hike around. Sooner or later we'll meet and at the moment I see your little green star, I "salutos vin".
(I have to agree that this would be a fairly expensive way to get your green star recognized, though, so I won't feel any kind of offense if you don't do it).
Amike.