razlem:

Scratch:I was thinking about conlangs last night and realized another way of putting a bit of twist into a conlang's structure is to use another base number system.

I've seen some conlangs like that. I just don't have the patience for another base system

However, many computer technolgists almost have to deal with number base systems other than our familiar decimal system, such as binary and hexadecimal (and, in some years gone by, octal). I did a lot of hexadecimal arithmetic in my time as a professional programmer.

I think that a lot of it is what one gets used to. For example, we here in the USA still stubbornly cling to the old English units of measurement (with a few exceptions) rather than most of the rest of the world's international units (which we call the "metric system" here). Given enough time and effort, Americans could eventually get used to thinking and working in metric if they just would (especially the next generation).

I think it unlikely that any realistic conIAL proposal (Esperanto or any other) will succeed if a non-decimal number system is primary, but just as computer technologists have to use non-decimal systems, it could certainly be an option.

bartlett22183:rather than most of the rest of the world's international units (which we call the "metric system" here). Given enough time and effort, Americans could eventually get used to thinking and working in metric if they just would (especially the next generation).

We call it the metric system too - although we're late adopters and still use imperial measurements for some things (although not exclusively), like aviation, tyre pressure, height of a person (very interchangeable with metric though, but harder to remember metric measurements for the height of people), and we once again do a mishmash of metric/imperial for TV screens, but it's easier for me to imagine a 12inch screen instead of a 32cm screen.

Interestingly, countries that were late adopters to the metric system (I'm gonna go with around post-WW1) seem to have a history of having merged measurement systems or at least still having the older measurements existing in relic form, where as its very hard to find out much about pre-metric measurements in France (probably because then we're looking at medieval measurements, where they had about 20 different ideas of what a mile was, and no one could be stuffed remembering that, if Horrible Histories is to go by).

T0dd:
I really think you hit the nail on the head much earlier in this thread, when you noted that learning Esperanto is a way to participate in a linguistic experiment without any real precedent in human history. That's pretty much what I tell people, and although they don't quite get it, they respect it. I just point out that nothing like this has ever been done before, and I want to be a part of it.

Hhm, I have an similar view regarding EU matters. ("EU matters are a big historical experiment") But maybe using it for Esperanto language (hobby) it could sound like an invitation to join some language elite the way "Using Esperanto makes someones/you special outstanding of the (stupid, ignorant) masses". Regarding me, being part of and acting like an (language) elite definitly is not my kind of thing.

"participate in a linguistic experiment without any real precedent in human history".

erinja:
Sometimes it isn't worth of someones breath to argue about things in situations where one person is unlikely to convince the other - and both ... have very strong opinions on the topic of ... , and on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Yes, but that only can work if both persons don't have (individualistic) Winner-Loser battle situation in mind. I don't get the full understanding of English idiomatic "not worth of breath". But with my native language background I could receive that written "not worth of breath" expression something offending. Probably you mean "as is situation" which means to respect contradict opinions. Sometimes peaceful co-existence of contradict opinions and beliefs needs lot of distance between the regarding persons. But that co-existence seems to be possible. Distance doesn't mean communication cut. I believe if someones accept that others opinion is base of otherones personal experiences, then nobody would feel some internal need to handle an Winner-Loser battle situation. In my opinion there's always a reason why somebody is doing something "wrong" according some otherones beliefs. And sometimes I don't have to understand the reason behind. I can let it be "as is". Yes, that can be difficult because words can hurt but doesn't need to be intented to hurt. Words not everytime represents 100% the same concepts accross cultures or even accross single humans.

qwertz: I don't get the full understanding of English idiomatic "not worth of breath".

That is quite self-explaining:
Nicht der Mühe wert - ne valoras la penon

qwertz:
But with my native language background I could receive that written "not worth of breath" expression something offending.

You are really looking everywhere for offenses.

horsto:

qwertz: I don't get the full understanding of English idiomatic "not worth of breath".

That is quite self-explaining:
Nicht der Mühe wert - ne valoras la penon

"Nicht der Mühe wert - ne valoras la penon" doesn't have an place reserved inside my beliefs.

horsto:

qwertz:
But with my native language background I could receive that written "not worth of breath" expression something offending.

You are really looking everywhere for offenses.

You feel offended because I feel offended of situations you don't feel offended. You transmute into my personal position. In German "etwas persönlich nehmen". Yes, maybe that kind of indirect self-reflection could be kind of human nature (including me). And maybe self-reflection comes of internal need/desire to learn/evaluate or tolerate or destroy.

horsto:
You are really looking everywhere for offenses.

And that is why I stopped reading (or responding to) such long incomprehensible messages with nearly no content at all a long time ago.

darkweasel:

horsto:
You are really looking everywhere for offenses.

And that is why I stopped reading (or responding to) such long incomprehensible messages with nearly no content at all a long time ago.

Okay, darkweasel. Someones doesn't need to understand everyhing. That also includes me by myself. My opinions and beliefs simply seems to be apart of your personal scope.

Btw, I also don't understand your efforts "to consume PMEG like sniffing it through the nose without any questioning/hinterfragen". (sarcastic)But probably PMEG seems to have big drug potential(/sarcastic): The PMEG say this, the PMEG says that.

Laŭ me, the PMEG is no biblical text. With all respect to Bertilo: The PMEG contains recommendations which could be matter of human misunderstanding, too. I also assume, that Bertilo does it see the same way and would let discuss his communication experiences which he shaped into PMEG.

If it comes to art of human communication everything can be matter of discussion.

it could sound like an invitation to join some language elite

Then it is a way of describing Esperanto we should adopt. Esperanto needs more status in the public mind.

And it wouldn't be a bad idea to attract the movers and shakers of society to the movement, who might more readily associate themselves with something that appeals to an elite.

The more, influential people are Esperantists, the better the prospects for Esperanto.

The problem for the movement is perhaps neatly summed up in your dismissal, Qwertz, of Esperanto as a hobby.

By the way, Qwertz, the EU is looking pretty daft at the moment.

There never was going to be another European war. Just a few international trade agreements and standardizations for commercial purposes would have brought most of the benefits without all the hassle.

sudanglo:

it could sound like an invitation to join some language elite

Then it is a way of describing Esperanto we should adopt. Esperanto needs more status in the public mind.

I agree, that Esperanto language tool deserves more attention.

sudanglo:
And it wouldn't be a bad idea to attract the movers and shakers of society to the movement, who might more readily associate themselves with something that appeals to an elite.

Pfff. The "problems" of movers and shakers of society is, that they get bored if the feel missing that there is something left to "move" and "shake". (sarcasm)After sometimes the drink gets ready. Doesn't make sense to proceed shaking. (/sarcasm)

sudanglo:
The more, influential people are Esperantists, the better the prospects for Esperanto.

And the most cool/mojosa Esperantists are the Gypsie-Backpacker-Esperantists, who are capable of leaving self-driven the running/moving train. Btw, doesn't exclude to jump at the train again.

sudanglo:
The problem for the movement is perhaps neatly summed up in your dismissal, Qwertz, of Esperanto as a hobby.

Pfff. O~~~~~~~ka~~~~~~~~y. But - sorry - that's their problem. They are not really interested to solve their problems.

sudanglo:
By the way, Qwertz, the EU is looking pretty daft at the moment.

I would like be understood that this would be understood like an solely personal answer to sudanglo:

Could be received like an typical relaxed(?) British view of outside, isn't? Somewhat like "Let others grab the chestnuts out of the fire. We will join afterwards more at more comfy circumstances". ### saves the £.

That's not intented to be an general offence against British citizens. But its often published that way of non-British newspapers.

sudanglo:
There never was going to be another European war. Just a few international trade agreements and standardizations for commercial purposes would have brought most of the benefits without all the hassle.

Just to shorten the discussion: To what theoretical conclusion you want to point me that way?