Messaggi: 25
Lingua: English
sudanglo (Mostra il profilo) 14 novembre 2011 11:24:58
But in Esperanto would you say: 'Ĉu tio estas vi, Johano?' or 'Ĉu estas vi, Johano?'
For 'It wasn't me who who took the money' would you say: 'Tio ne estis mi, kiu prenis la monon' or 'Ne estis mi, kiu prenis la monon'?
darkweasel (Mostra il profilo) 14 novembre 2011 12:01:51
sudanglo:I think both are valid, as is ĉu vi, Johano?.
But in Esperanto would you say: 'Ĉu tio estas vi, Johano?' or 'Ĉu estas vi, Johano?'
sudanglo:For 'It wasn't me who who took the money' would you say: 'Tio ne estis mi, kiu prenis la monon' or 'Ne estis mi, kiu prenis la monon'?Definitely the second one, but there’s a more compact version: ne mi prenis la monon.
sudanglo (Mostra il profilo) 14 novembre 2011 12:14:43
erinja (Mostra il profilo) 14 novembre 2011 12:50:47
To my ear, some early Esperanto can sound overly wordy and a bit unwieldy. So when I hear a sentence that has more words than it really needs to have, perhaps with an extra "tio" or "ĝi" thrown in, it sounds a little archaic. Not wrong, just wordy. The style wasn't yet well developed, and writers hadn't yet decided how many words were needed for clear understanding. You were likely to find constructions like "Jen ĝi estas" rather than the simple "Jen ĝi" that most people would use today (though including "estas" is still not wrong).
Tjeri (Mostra il profilo) 14 novembre 2011 16:15:42
'Tio ne estis mi, kiu prenis la mononI think this is a mistake.
I would say: Tiu ne estis mi, kiu prenis la monon
sudanglo (Mostra il profilo) 14 novembre 2011 17:29:00
Fom an outsiders point of view it must seem very strange that in the English forum contributors regularly come from all over Europe and are forced to write their replies in broken English, rather than in the international (and reputedly very easy to read and write) language, Esperanto.
It's a poor advert for Esperanto.
If I were a beginner asking a question, then in that case it might be sensible to ask (on my behalf) for some sort of translation into English of a reply.
sudanglo (Mostra il profilo) 14 novembre 2011 17:46:53
Consider replying to 'Who used up the last of the milk?' the short answer (ruefully)would be 'tio estas mi', wouldn't it? -C'est moi (qui l'a fait)
Why then wouldn't the long answer be 'Tio estas mi, kiu faris tion.
I don't know why 'Kiu faris tion? Tiu estas mi' sounds stilted to me. Perhaps, it's just me
Tjeri (Mostra il profilo) 14 novembre 2011 18:16:18
'Kiu faris tion?The natural answer may be: "mi faris", or "Ja mi faris", if you want to insist on the subject.
But the "grammatical" answer is certainly: mi estas tiu, kiu faris tion.
Chainy (Mostra il profilo) 14 novembre 2011 19:23:17
darkweasel:...but there’s a more compact version: ne mi prenis la monon.+1
This is perfectly clear and understandable. The longer form of 'ne estis mi, kiu' is fine, but it's not always necessary to say it this way.
Chainy (Mostra il profilo) 14 novembre 2011 19:27:59
sudanglo:Thank you for your kind message in red admin, but I can understand replies in Esperanto and I wouldn't want speakers of other languages to feel inhibited from replying because their English wasn't upto writing a reply.If you're worried about people's inhibitions in English, then why don't you post this kind of thing in the Esperanto-language forum?
Even if you're asking about a translation for an English phrase, then you can post it in the Esperanto forum. Even if people don't understand the English, they can let you know if they understand your Esperanto version!