qwertz:Another idea: Assuming that new lernu forum system is based at an wiki system.

Why should it be?

Just to be clear about what I mean about correcting posts...

I don't mean having official "post correctors"; volunteers who sit and wade through the forums dispensing advice.

What I mean is that we as a community should adopt the attitude that since we are participating in an educational effort - the whole point of Lernu, after all - then what we write here is by default subject to scrutiny and correction.

By anyone and by everyone.

Every (Esperanto) forum post should be thought of and treated as a small self-assigned essay, whose form is just as important as its content, and which by being posted is, in effect, being "handed in" to the community for comment and correction.

This doesn't require any kind of physical change to the forum. This just requires a change in approach to the forum by its participants and the establishment of a new generally accepted social norm.

We are all students. We are all teachers.

@RiotNrrd: Thats an very strong and high valuable statement.

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darkweasel:

qwertz:Another idea: Assuming that new lernu forum system is based at an wiki system.

Why should it be?

I.e. the code of an already excisting rich text editor could be available inside forum system and private message system. Means all facilities of the Wiki system are available inside forum and private message system. Check yourself at ubuntuusers.de .

Furthermore, that even would make possible to implement content like currently handeled at kantaro.ikso.net and other cooperative work. I see an Wiki like an tool of result driven collaberation. There are lot of information inside forum section which could need some more structure. Currently that information get lost if someones doesn't remember some proper search keyword.

qwertz:
I.e. the code of an already excisting rich text editor could be available inside forum system and private message system. Means all facilities of the Wiki system are available inside forum and private message system. Check yourself at ubuntuusers.de .

Furthermore, that even would make possible to implement content like currently handeled at kantaro.ikso.net and other cooperative work. I see an Wiki like an tool of result driven collaberation. There are lot of information inside forum section which could need some more structure. Currently that information get lost if someones doesn't remember some proper search keyword.

A lernu! wiki may be a good idea, it’s just somewhat off-topic on here...

1Guy1:

tommjames: As pikolas noted it is discriminatory by nature,

I cannot see how this proposal can really be called discriminatory. No one is excluded because of gender, race or religion. Everyone has the chance to get good enough to be included.

Perhaps "discriminatory" was too strong a word. "Exclusive" might have been better.

In any case, if you read the remainder of my post, you will have noted that I'm very much in agreement with you.

qwertz:Creation of such forum section I would receive like creation of an elitist (closed) circle. I would do like in real life: Ignoring. The closed nature of that section simplifies keeping distance = ignoring.

Except that it's not closed at all; you just have to learn the language. I would have thought most members of this site would have some interest in that, regardless of whatever "privilege" it may bring.

tommjames:

qwertz:Creation of such forum section I would receive like creation of an elitist (closed) circle. I would do like in real life: Ignoring. The closed nature of that section simplifies keeping distance = ignoring.

Except that it's not closed at all; you just have to learn the language. I would have thought most members of this site would have some interest in that, regardless of whatever "privilege" it may bring.

Okay. You're right. It will be not some kind of closed circle. I had some spoken offline situations in mind during writing that (especially "supersonic rapid fire" speakers). But written conversation seems be different situation to spoken conversation. If advanced speakers start spoken conversation, beginners often will not be capable to take part. Probably that advanced speakers conversation will get competitive character. That makes that advanced speakers conversation somewhat closed to beginners means it excludes beginners. Advanced speaker will use (most) difficult phrases which beginners have no chance to grasp. I.e. Gerda malaperis seems to be pure Esperanto. But its sometimes quite difficult to understand or to figure out word phrases which are different to someones native language. Thats maybe no matter for you. But it could be matter for others. I also understand that dislike of advanced speaker against disruption due to beginners non-sufficent language proficiency. Its some kind of typical language level splitting of offline Esperanto renkontiĝojn I visited (4x one). Situation could happen and happend, that only advanced speakers with teaching background remain helpful resource to komencantoj.

darkweasel:
A lernu! wiki may be a good idea, it’s just somewhat off-topic on here...

Its on topic. Take a look at this Wikispace.com example and imagine an forum system which works under the hood like wiki system. Different said: Imagine an forum interface at which someones could make modifications (=language correction = different status inside wiki system) only visible to regarding person. The original post (= another different status inside wiki history) will remain untouched. An wiki system should be capable to handle that. There are only different history status views to handle.

Ubuntuusers Wiki system has similar logging facility. Press two of the blue radio buttons at different history entries. Later press "Vergleichen" (compare). The red colour marks deleted text. The green colour marks added text. Regarding ubuntuusers.de forum view: Only users with moderation role (realized by an access control list) have access to Wiki view inside ubuntuusers.de Forum system.

Hello,a first post here.

Wouldn't an advanced-speakers-only section siphon off the advanced speakers necessary to maintaining at least moderate correction in other parts of the forum? It can be a chore to converse with someone at a lower level and easier to converse with someone of similar level.

If advanced speakers find themselves frequenting among, mostly, other advanced speakers, for the sake of only encountering good grammar etc, it leaves beginners and intermediates either largely self-correcting or with a case of the blind leading the blind, as it were.

I only recently started learning, so feel free to correct any misconceptions I may have. I realise precision is important as part of the Esperanto ethos as an auxiliary language, but on a forum, especially if the correction rate is outstripped by posting activity, some sort of forum 'vernacular' will spread easily.

Desire to enter a section may urge people to improve, but may also make people feel as though faster learners get preferential treatment.

Just my two-pence worth.

You could argue that by offering a forum in English, we are siphoning off English speakers from the Esperanto forums by giving them a chance to discuss topics in their native language, rather than practicing their Esperanto.

I think that advanced speakers are not likely to limit themselves only to the advanced forum. Some will, but many won't. People tend to go where the interesting conversations are, and I think that the good conversations would not be limited to the advanced forum.

qwertz:Imagine an forum interface at which someones could make modifications (=language correction = different status inside wiki system) only visible to regarding person.

That would be the opposite goal of having a separate forum. The point of having an advanced forum, is that beginners can read a forum and know that the grammar in those discussions is correct. If the corrections are not shown to all of the forum's readers, then only the person who wrote the original post can benefit from the corrections. The other Esperanto learners reading the forum will be unable to learn from the corrections.

qwertz:That makes that advanced speakers conversation somewhat closed to beginners means it excludes beginners.

Advanced speakers can speak in a way that beginners can understand if they want to. But they don't always want to. It takes a lot of patience to talk to beginners. Most Esperanto speakers are glad to do it, up to a point. And at a certain point, they just want to have a real conversation in fluent Esperanto, without worrying about offending some beginner who is trying to listen in.

Or else maybe you need to find some new friends. If someone likes you, then they make an extra effort to include you in the conversation, even if you are a beginner and they are an advanced speaker. If someone is talking quickly and ignoring you, then probably they are not interested in talking to you (regardless of your language level), and you should find someone else to talk to.