Does an Auxiliary Language Need 5 Years for Mastery?
od uživatele bartlett22183 ze dne 3. prosince 2011
Příspěvky: 79
Jazyk: English
Vestitor (Ukázat profil) 4. prosince 2011 5:42:03
Today it's easier. Beginners who want to practice their speaking can just exchange Skype names and they can talk that way. But that didn't exist yet when I was learning (through a paper postal course - no sound files or tapes in support, so my first Esperanto weekend was more or less the first time I even heard Esperanto spoken by a person other than myself). You can imagine that how I learned (entirely on paper) was the way that all of the earliest Esperantists learned. You can imagine what a thrill it must have been when the very first Esperanto congress took place in 1905, when all of these people found that they could actually communicate with one another, though many of them had never spoken Esperanto aloud with a person from another country before!I suppose that does say a lot. It's quite an achievement for there to have been mutual understanding when there was no existing shared speech model by which to judge it.
Personally I'm remaining optimistic about Esperanto for myself, because I don't think it's fun learning long lists of verb conjugations, exceptions and extensive vocabularies. Maybe it is for some people, but not me.
I'll be honest though, I've found Esperanto to have simplicity in some ways and typical language-learning aggravations in other ways: like a confusing plethora of endings and prefixes/suffixes. But then I've only been at it for little over a week. I ought to revisit the rapidity of learning question after a more realistic time period.
btw, how does one show the quoted-person's name in a citation on here?
erinja (Ukázat profil) 4. prosince 2011 5:46:59
The prefixes and suffixes can be learned gradually. Some people prefer to learn them all at once but I suggest learning them gradually if they seem overwhelming. Eventually, of course, they become second nature.
There are a lot of endings but still a lot less than you'd end up with other languages - plus no irregular verbs, no strange forms that you can't look up in the dictionary because they bear no resemblance to the dictionary form (infinitive or whatever), etc.
You'll progress quickly. You'll be surprised at how quickly, I think.
lgg (Ukázat profil) 4. prosince 2011 8:36:53
erinja:You can imagine that how I learned (entirely on paper) was the way that all of the earliest Esperantists learned. You can imagine what a thrill it must have been when the very first Esperanto congress took place in 1905, when all of these people found that they could actually communicate with one another, though many of them had never spoken Esperanto aloud with a person from another country before!All people participating in 1905 congress were fluent in French, German, Latin, classic Greek, someone even in English or Italian. They thought of Esperanto as of romance language and of course could wield it as the languages they knew.
sudanglo (Ukázat profil) 4. prosince 2011 13:31:09
Most Esperantists would agree that he succeeded and would point to the substantial anecodotal evidence that this is the case.
Even if you decide that Zamenhof failed, there is still a case for Esperanto as an international language, since it puts everybody on an equal footing not giving advantages to one group of native speakers, as would be the case in adopting any national language as the international language.
As to whether it requires 5 years of serious study to achieve mastery, it all depends on what level of application is implied by the phrase 'serious study' and what counts as 'mastery'.
My own definition of mastery would be whether you could say what you want to say rather than only being able to say what you know how to say.
This will vary with the communicative needs of the individual. Most people wouldn't need to be able to write a novel.
qwertz (Ukázat profil) 4. prosince 2011 14:14:38
sudanglo:At what is your assumption based? I.e. at German schools its part of German native language teaching to write novels/Aufsätze. Of course that's more intensive done at Gymnasium/College as at Hauptschule/primary school.
Most people wouldn't need to be able to write a novel.
(Edit
Okay. I see. That could received written like some rudeness. erinja (Ukázat profil) 4. prosince 2011 14:22:27
A novel is a work of fiction, a book that is usually hundreds of pages long. Most people have no interest or patience for writing a story that is hundreds of pages long. Anyone could do it, with enough patience, but most people couldn't do it well.
Perhaps you should look up key words in a dictionary next time, before taking offense. Then you can ensure that people are really talking about what you think they're talking about, and decide whether this is worth getting offended over.
qwertz (Ukázat profil) 4. prosince 2011 20:45:49
erinja (Ukázat profil) 4. prosince 2011 21:39:34
qwertz:@erinja: Doesn't change anything regarding: Every human is capable of everything.I hope you will apologise to Sudanglo, qwertz. It is a rule in the forums not to misrepresent what other forum users have said. You called Sudanglo "disrespectful" after misrepresenting what he said. I know that you would not break this rule on purpose. But before you make rude comments about someone's opinion, you should read the person's message carefully to ensure that you understood it correctly.
It is clear to me that you did not understand Sudanglo's message.
Sudanglo never said that people aren't able to write novels.
He said that most people don't need to be able to write a novel.
Either you did not see the word "need" in his sentence, or you didn't know the meaning of this word. A dictionary helps if you are unsure.
We are talking about the difference between brauchen (to need) and können (to be able).
Most people have no need to write a novel. Therefore they do not spend time studying the language to a level where they are able to write one. Yes, if they had the desire, they could study to reach that level, and they could reach that level, but they have no need, so they don't.
Maybe someone can translate this into German for you if it is not clear.
Vestitor (Ukázat profil) 4. prosince 2011 23:05:21
Just a little poker-faced joke.
Evildela (Ukázat profil) 4. prosince 2011 23:26:15
Vestitor:This is probably a good case for why this thread might thave worked better in Esperanto. National language misunderstandings can lead to unwitting conflict.Mi konsentas...
Just a little poker-faced joke.