Bemused:There seems to be a lot of discussion on reform/change to the Esperanto language.

As a native English speaker I have observed the English language being changed by several means:

- Social activism. The word "gay" used to mean "happy" until it was adopted by homosexuals.

-Ease of use. The breathy "wh" sound has been replaced by the "w" sound.

-Government decree. The word "inflammable" was changed to "flammable" because newcomers to English were misunderstanding it to mean non flammable.

-Effect of mass media. The phrase " Oh my god" is now used where there used to be many different expressions.

Some of these changes could be described as natural evolution, others are examples of deliberate change/reform by groups of users of the language.

But NONE of them (I have my doubts about your anecdote on govt. decree. I've never heard of such a thing) came down from a centralized body and forced on the rest of us. That's the big difference.

"Better" is the enemy of "good". If the language works fine for those who know it well, why should it be reformed for those who don't know it yet?

There oughta be a FAQ.

RiotNrrd:There oughta be a FAQ.

You’re [url=?t=7998&p=12#105266]not the first one to come up with this idea[/url].

Speaking of which, RiotNrrd, we've had a couple discussions within the team on this reform topic.

That is, in the new lernu, should we have a special forum for discussions on reforms.

It's a difficult topic and I'm not even sure of my own opinion on what would be the best course of action.

Options:

1) Segregate these "reform discussions" into their own forum topic
+ It doesn't clutter other forum topics
+ It's easy to avoid if you are sick of seeing this stuff
- It may give beginners the impression that Esperanto is up for reform; what German-learning website would have a thread about reforms of German? Would a religious website have a thread devoted to whether that religion is really true, or whether other religions are more true?
+ It's impossible to stop these discussions so you might as well give them a place, accompanied by an appropriate FAQ

2) Leave things as they are.
+ The site doesn't give the public the impression that Esperanto is up for reform.
- Regular forum readers are tired of answering these questions.

3) Add a forum on language reforms but make it clear that it's for discussions of reform attempts, past and present. Include a FAQ on why we don't reform.
+ This forum has a slightly more historical bias, so it gives less impression that Esperanto is open to reforms
- May still be encouraging to people who think Esperanto can be reformed.

4) Make a forum like the one in number 3, but make it Esperanto only. Include a FAQ on why we don't reform, in all of the site's languages.
+ cut off newbies who don't bother learning the language before asking for reforms
- cut off newbies who are not trolls but have a genuine question that they are unable to ask in Esperanto. Unfortunately these threads with sincere newbie questions also tend to draw in trolls and people who won't let go of a topic, so the newbie unwittingly spawns the thread that won't die. The hope would be that the FAQ would adequately answer these questions.

Another team member mentioned that these reform-topic threads tend to have a high count of messages, which is good for the forums, when a thread is very active. However, how much are we willing to annoy our regular users, in order to allow these threads?

Comments?

If you want my opinion, four would be best, since it requires at least a fundamental knowledge of Esperanto grammar and usage.

I just opened a thread on this

http://en.lernu.net/komunikado/forumo/temo.php?t...

As I didn't see these comments from Erinja until now. I vote for closure of all these reform threads as this is a learning website. If I wanted to learn Chinese I don't go to a Chinese website than make reform proposals.

Thank you erinja for your insightful analysis and Darkweasel for the link to Peron's article.

The article gives a great insight to the evolution of the language.

An easily found link somewhere on the site could perhaps answer newcomers questions regarding reform and reduce the number of proposals that seem to annoy advanced speakers.

Cheers

erinja I would vote for option 3)

Sorry I did not see that post before my previous post about a link.

Cheers

Erinja's option 3) seems to be a good solution, so I'd vote for this.