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Language Reform

by Bemused, December 25, 2011

Messages: 40

Language: English

trojo (User's profile) December 26, 2011, 10:16:51 PM

I like number four.

"Hey guys, I have a brilliant idea I'm sure no one has ever suggested before! Let's get rid of the accusative!"

"Take it to the Plendejo, new guy."

"But I don't actually speak Esperanto..."

"Exactly."

robbkvasnak (User's profile) December 26, 2011, 10:55:23 PM

There was already a "great" reform of Esperanto - they called it Ido - look how many people speak Ido now! Compare that number with those who speak Esperanto. That is where "reform" leads - to Ido.

orthohawk (User's profile) December 26, 2011, 11:16:50 PM

N-true:
orthohawk:But NONE of them (...) came down from a centralized body and forced on the rest of us. That's the big difference.
The difference between what and what? In Esperanto, these things don't happen either. There's no centralized body that could tell me how to speak the language. They might suggest a new word, decide on some seldom grammatical issue, but they wouldn't totally change and reform the language. This hasn't happened before either (contrary to what lgg claims).
That was my point; neither did those things happen by decree in English. He's comparing apples and oranges.

orthohawk (User's profile) December 26, 2011, 11:21:13 PM

trojo:I like number four.

"Hey guys, I have a brilliant idea I'm sure no one has ever suggested before! Let's get rid of the accusative!"

"Take it to the Plendejo, new guy."

"But I don't actually speak Esperanto..."

"Exactly."
1+!!

erinja (User's profile) December 26, 2011, 11:32:09 PM

RiotNrrd:You certainly don't want the forum to be in Esperanto. Reformers generally don't, on the whole, tend to speak Esperanto all that well.
Haha, that's pretty much the point, actually!

"Read this FAQ on why we don't reform, and digest its contents while you learn Esperanto well enough to go discuss your ideas in an Esperanto forum. Then when you've learnt it well enough, decide on whether you still agree with your previous ideas or not".

Hispanio (User's profile) December 27, 2011, 12:05:49 AM

I don't like reforms made by Esperanto speakers or Esperanto newcomers. I prefer a natural evolution of the language, like Spanish (from Latin to Spanish there was many changes) or English (from Ancient German to Anglosaxon to English), not only gramatically, but also lexically.

Let's Esperanto to evolve naturally, because it's alive.

chrisim101010 (User's profile) December 27, 2011, 1:25:51 AM

Chainy:
sudanglo:Can't we just send the 'reformers' to the Conlang Society. I'm sure that they would be welcome there.
Yes, it can be found here. The only problem is that there's no forum at the moment, only some mailing lists. However, perhaps some disgruntled reformer might make the effort to start a forum over there?
It is interesting to note that the web site is exclusively in English!

sudanglo (User's profile) December 27, 2011, 9:35:16 AM

Conlang Society not active?

Then how ironic that the only place on the web where these gentlemen might get an airing for their Quixotic views should be in an Esperanto Forum - the very place where their opinions will be most unwelcome.

By the way, I don't like the term 'reformer', which seems to confer too much dignity on their activities - I suggest Zamenhof-botherer, or Ido-lover.

And for a term in Esperanto, I suggest Vespo/Vespi.

Kiel Vespo ĝenas ĉe pikniko, tiel 'reformisto' klopodas iriti la samideanojn per pikado.

Along with the injunction Ne Krokodilu!, let there be the cry Ne Vespu!

Bemused (User's profile) December 27, 2011, 10:25:05 AM

*Trying to stuff the worms back into the can.*

This thread has unfortunately become a scene of bickering.
Had I known this would happen I would never have asked the original question.
T'is the season for peace and love to all fellow beings.

Peace all.

sudanglo (User's profile) December 27, 2011, 10:38:09 AM

It's a rare discussion that doesn't wander off topic.

But to answer your original question Bemused, Esperanto has clearly been subject to living language type evolution.

But this is quite different to the newbie type reform suggestions, which experienced users of the language find so exasperating.

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