I'm with QWERTZ, how do we know if this is a universal idiom, first, does a Zamenhof version exist? If so than take that one. If not than I wouldn't translate this literally as we can't be sure that a Chinese speaker would understand it. When you think about it, stealing a kiss isn't logical, and I'm not even sure if it means the same to me as every other English speaker. I see it as finally getting the will power, or the right to kiss another person, it also has many other connotations depending on context

Did someone say it was universal? It's definitely English.
It is logical if you know that steal doesn't always mean taking without permission. It also (now for the third time) means to win.

I'll give a Dutch comparison: Olie uit de aarde winnen = to gain/secure oil (from the earth). Or: Terrein winnen = to gain ground. 'Win' in Dutch also means 'win' in the sense of winning as in English. But no-one would think 'terrein winnen' means winning it as a prize.

It's not worth comparing English 'steal' to how 'stehlen' might work in German, they're cognates, but may get used in different ways. Usage is not identical, even between related languages.

So the idiom is contextual as well. It's really not worth translating, though the idea is probably worth rendering in Esperanto.

erinja:
Why are you being so rude to sudanglo? You should not be so quick to take offense.

Sorry about, but probably someones has to live inside Individualismus versus "Gemeinschaftssinn" clash area (like Southwestern-Germany) to understand that completly. East-Germans of my generation take care of everything what could offense somebody. Of course that generation expects the same by everybody else around. I'm working at this issue. Means I try to learn to ignore individualistic behaviour. I grow up that beliefs, that living individualism doesn't discharge of responsiblity of someones own action results. Means if others freak-out because of my behaviour its my responsiblity to correct that situation. Extrem individualists only let it be as is, because they think that - "of course" its not their business how others receive "my most important persons" actions to my environment. That's high childish behaviour and no worth for adults to act like this.

Hopefully that gives an glue. Please, I'm not mentaly sick. Such kind of criticism would be - ehm .... get the proper answer. Regarding that matter Individualismus versus "Gemeinschaftssinn" I had a lot of talks with expatriated East-Germans (to Southwestern-Germany).

erinja:
If he has heard this expression in German, it seems reasonable to go to the German forums to ask if the expression is common in a different dialect than the one that you speak.

Okay. I see. That was somewhat selfish by myself. I would say that I have read a lot of German books to know German poetic quite well. I think, that I don't have to consult somebody because of that. Okay, that's very selfish, too.

erinja:
It is hardly a snotty comment. No native German speaker can be expected to know every expression in every dialect, so a forum full of native German speakers is an excellent place to ask "Has anyone heard this expression?"

The regarding phrase translated to German, that is pure but maybe poetic Duden-Hochdeutsch. Yes, for sure, you're right. I don't know Swiss or Austrian German phrases very well. Most German books I have read were written Duden-Hochdeutsch. I dislike most of German dialects. Most dialects unconsciously only exclude alvojaĝantojn. I don't see any sense at this practice.

erinja:
I would certainly go to the English forum, not to the German forum, if someone mentioned to me an English idiom that I had never heard.

It's some kind of We are all students. We are all teachers. matter again.

Vestitor:
So the idiom is contextual as well. It's really not worth translating, though the idea is probably worth rendering in Esperanto.

I full agree. A lot of idioms contain very valuable ideas. I mean, idiomatic concepts require some intellectual efforts to create that idioms. But often idioms only will passed on from generation to another without any deep questioning/Hinterfragen. So, transforming ideas of national language idioms into international understood i.e. Esperanto language, that seems into to be very interesting discussion field.

I appreciate the translation suggestions and the comments regarding how this idiom may not be easily understood in some cultures.

I asked the question as I am translating a short english-language anecdote from the early 1900's. The idiom of stealing a kiss is generally understood in English but may be less commonly used than it was when the anecdote was written.

I think it might be good if I post something here when I've worked out a translation. It may or may not be possible to properly convey the humour behind the anecdote into Esperanto.

I have no idea Qwertz, why you have never heard of 'einen Kuss rauben' with the meaning of to steal a kiss.

You'll find it listed on the Net in the Collins German-English Dictionary (and I suspect other Net dictionaries).

Interestingly, I note that German uses rauben in relation to time and sleep, corresponding to Esperanto's use of 'temporaba' and dormoraba'

This inclines me even more to 'rabi kison' rather than ŝteli kison.

If it's too much effort to post in the German Forum, Qwertz, just Google 'Meaning of Einen kuss rauben'.

Evildela:we can't be sure that a Chinese speaker would understand it.

Easy enough to check Evildela, we have Chinese speakers here who post in the Esperanto Forums.

Since the idea crops up in a number of European languages, I suspect that we have no more here than a universally understandable metaphorical extension of meaning.

Metaphorical expression would seem to be a general characteristic of Homo sapiens.

sudanglo:
I have no idea Qwertz, why you have never heard of 'einen Kuss rauben' with the meaning of to steal a kiss.

I have never heard about, because it seems to be 18XX German, which is not used in East-Germany nowadays. Like you probably know until 1989 Warsaw pact states were strictly distincted by politic system, which includes inner-Germany, too.

I searched http://books.google.com , which gives the oportunity to search inside original literature or recension of old German literature .

sudanglo:
You'll find it listed on the Net in the Collins German-English Dictionary (and I suspect other Net dictionaries).

Collins dictionary doesn't contain primary information. Its second and interpreted information, which by nature doesn't have to meet the original situation.

sudanglo:
Interestingly, I note that German uses rauben in relation to time and sleep, corresponding to Esperanto's use of 'temporaba' and dormoraba'

This inclines me even more to 'rabi kison' rather than ŝteli kison.

Compared to "stehlen", "rauben" or "ausrauben" is activity which needs much more criminal energy. "Stehlen" often used for low criminal energy criminal acts casually called "Kavaliersdelikt". Because Germans use a lot of word compounds, and if the situation meet that, at German newspapers "Raub" often comes together with "Mord" = "Raubmord". I never have read or heard "Stehlmord".

I like Duden's "Typische Verbindungen (computergeneriert)"/Typical relationsships (automatically generated by database machine). It very simplified shows semantic role of some word using word cloud feature. Seems to be new feature of Duden webseite. I.e. rauben and stehlen. Would be nice if new lernu.net system would contain some similar feature generated out of the forum messages. That would give very interesting research facilities for Esperantology science field.

sudanglo:
If it's too much effort to post in the German Forum, just Google 'Meaning of Einen kuss rauben'.

I don't do much of "pushed to mainstream by Google ranking" searches like plain Google search. Often it only gives back lot of Internet junk information. I prefer scientific reserach information which often of course is not free. But jes, I agree. An phrase search at http://books.google.com could give a glue with some matters.

sudanglo:

Evildela:we can't be sure that a Chinese speaker would understand it.

Easy enough to check Evildela, we have Chinese speakers here who post in the Esperanto Forums.

Since the idea crops up in a number of European languages, I suspect that we have no more here than a universally understandable metaphorical extension of meaning.

Metaphorical expression would seem to be a general characteristic of Homo sapiens.

It "simply"* would need some kind of scientific Ontology representation to make that releationships viewable. So, users of different cultures could verify that relationsships.

*Its not simple. It will need lot of efforts.

The Duden link you gave, Qwertz, quotes er raubte ihr einen Kuss.

But in any case, you don't seem to upto speed with modern lexicology.

I remember from years back claims made by Collins about the corpus-based nature of their dictionaries. Such corpuses are built from a wide variety of spoken and written sources.

Anyway, the interesting point, is not whether you are personally familiar with the expression, but the fact that German uses for this idiom a verb cognate with Esperanto's rabi rather than stehlen cognate with Esperanto's ŝteli.