lgg:BTW, don't many Polish nouns have the same form in Nom and Acc? Accusative is probably the most useless case, even vocative is mor important.

Not sure about Polish, but Russian does sometimes, and German as well.

erinja:If the grammatical elements I mentioned above are the reasons are the reason why Esperanto hasn't gained more adherents, then why isn't Ido more successful?

Ido did more than just those, erinja. The table of correlatives was completely deconstructed and many word roots were changed to have a stronger Latin influence. Overall, it was a Romantic reworking of Esperanto grammar and morphology. For an 'international' language, it was huge step backwards.

razlem:

lgg:BTW, don't many Polish nouns have the same form in Nom and Acc? Accusative is probably the most useless case, even vocative is mor important.

Not sure about Polish, but Russian does sometimes, and German as well.

AFAIK in all Indo-European languages neuter words have the same nominative form as accusative form.

razlem:Ido did more than just those, erinja.

I'm well aware of what Ido did, but no language will ever perfectly match someone's personal preferences.

I'm in the camp of "Pick the language that agrees best with your personal preferences, then learn it without whining, accepting that no language will perfectly match your linguistic preference"

The corrollary to that is: If you want a language that is precisely as you want it to be, go and make your own language. But at any rate, it doesn't do to go moaning around another language's forums, complaining that their language isn't to your taste, and that those closed-minded meanies refuse to listen to your ideas on changing a living language, and SOOOO many more people would learn the closed-minded meanies' language, if only they weren't so closed-minded and mean, and if only they would listen to your great reform ideas!!!!!!!11

lgg:Because accusative looks wrong and weird being the only flective case; all other cases like genitive, dative, instrumentalis, partitive, ergative, etc. are analitical. They just don't mix.

But they obviously do mix as over a hundred years of Esperanto attest.

sudanglo:
'Alies' is quite common and useful. I think I have heard in conversation Kies mantelo estas ĉi tiu? Mies. Perhaps also 'onies'. Anybody else heard that?

Hm, me used "mies" too, but accidentally during a conversation, responding a "kies"-question. Me remarked only after it was spoken, that its erroneous.

erinja:The corrollary to that is: If you want a language that is precisely as you want it to be, go and make your own language. But at any rate, it doesn't do to go moaning around another language's forums, complaining that their language isn't to your taste, and that those closed-minded meanies refuse to listen to your ideas on changing a living language, and SOOOO many more people would learn the closed-minded meanies' language, if only they weren't so closed-minded and mean, and if only they would listen to your great reform ideas!!!!!!!11

I get the distinct feeling this is directed towards me.

But to respond to your question- "Could it be that grammatical characteristics are not the primary reason for a language's success or failure?"

Concerning constructed languages, the primary reason would be recognition. But in the languages themselves, I believe yes, the grammatical characteristics are huge factors that determine a language's success or failure. Looking at other IALs, Ido and Interlingua had too many Romantic quirks that made them too similar to existing languages. In other words, you were better off just learning the languages they were based on.

What separates Esperanto from the aforementioned is the presence of a priori morphology and grammar- qualities not found in any natural language. The table of correlatives, part-of-speech vowel endings, those characteristics have, in my opinion, contributed absolutely to the success of Esperanto. But Esperanto is still not an easy language. It may be easier to learn than English or French, but some qualities of the language are quite complex, like the '-n'ding.

razlem:

erinja:it doesn't do to go moaning around another language's forums, complaining that their language isn't to your taste, and that those closed-minded meanies refuse to listen to your ideas on changing a living language, and SOOOO many more people would learn the closed-minded meanies' language, if only they weren't so closed-minded and mean, and if only they would listen to your great reform ideas!!!!!!!11

I get the distinct feeling this is directed towards me.

It is directed towards people who come to these forums with complaints about the language works and suggestions for reforms, and "threats" such as "If you don't implement my reforms, your language will never be a success".

I will leave it to your own judgment, regarding whether that refers to you or not. I wrote it generally because I know that our forum has a subset of people like the ones I describe, and it's more than one or two.

Moaning is moaning, and no one really wants to hear it. Esperanto isn't perfect by any means, but it works well for its purpose, and endless griping only annoys people. Those who are interested in talking about reforms would have a better audience for their views on something like a conlang list, not on a forum for learners of the existing language (not the pie in the sky, this-is-what-the-language-would-be-like-if-you-all-weren't-such-a-bit-lot-of-rigid-fundamentalist-meanies language)

How many times do we have to tell people... this is a living language. People speak it in Everyday conversation. It is NO longer a project and hasn't been for over 100 years. This website is to teach you Esperanto, if you don't like it, leave it. And I love our -n at first it was weird as a native English speaker, but then when you learn the language, omg it can be so awesome, especially when talking poetically.

However interesting fact for those that like to complain.

In 2010 a survey was carried out on Esperanto Google about the use of our special letters, that are apparently according to some 'hard' to write.

87% of Esperanto content used the unicode Esperanto letters.
8% used the x-sistem
5% used the h-sistem

Info found here: http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto

Evildela:How many times do we have to tell people... this is a living language. People speak it in Everyday conversation. It is NO longer a project and hasn't been for over 100 years. This website is to teach you Esperanto, if you don't like it, leave it. And I love our -n at first it was weird as a native English speaker, but then when you learn the language, omg it can be so awesome, especially when talking poetically.

However interesting fact for those that like to complain.

In 2010 a survey was carried out on Esperanto Google about the use of our special letters, that are apparently according to some 'hard' to write.

87% of Esperanto content used the unicode Esperanto letters.
8% used the x-sistem
5% used the h-sistem

Info found here: http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto

Better explained, impossible. Bravo.

Razlem:But Esperanto is still not an easy language. It may be easier to learn than English or French, but some qualities of the language are quite complex, like the '-n'ding.

So placing the suffix "-n" on an accusative object is "quite complex" - aha...

Evildela:How many times do we have to tell people... this is a living language. People speak it in Everyday conversation. It is NO longer a project and hasn't been for over 100 years.

Every language is under a constant process of development. If it is not, it will die out sooner or later. I really don't get the sense behind this opinion "it's working well enough, so don't dare to change anything!". You know what: English also works well enough, so why bother with something like Esperanto? German would also work, as well as Chinese or Icelandic. Maybe I'm too much an idealist, but if there is a better solution, then I aim towards it, instead of staying where I am.

And yes: I would really like to see some changes in my mother-tounge too.