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How to say "overlap"

от markotraviko, 11 января 2012 г.

Сообщений: 29

Язык: English

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 12 января 2012 г., 0:15:47

A lot of the North European languages seem to use a word like overlap - assuming Google translate is reliable.

So 'superlapi' might be guessable by speakers of those languages, perhaps also by some Romance language speakers since their words seem to begin with the equivalent of 'super'.

Lapo is a sort of thistle type plant in Esperanto. But that isn't really an objection.

However, 'Imbriki' has provenance and is documented. The etymology seems obscure, though (Edit: but see later).

Chainy (Показать профиль) 12 января 2012 г., 0:31:04

I don't think 'imbriki' (to imbricate!?) is the word we're after. See the NPIV2002 definition:

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 12 января 2012 г., 0:36:37

Yes, I quoted that definition in my first post, Chainy.

Auld's gloss is even clearer. Parte koincidi: etendiĝi trans la randon de io kaj parte surkuŝi

Chainy (Показать профиль) 12 января 2012 г., 0:37:57

fizikisto:In a german-esperanto dictionary I found "parte koincidi" for "überschneiden" = "to overlap".
That seems like a good translation.

I think you could also say 'parte samtempi'.

Chainy (Показать профиль) 12 января 2012 г., 1:09:12

sudanglo:NPIV lists 'imbriki' with the following definition: klinkovri en formo de tegol-arangxo - tegolo is a roof tile.

That seems to cover physical overlapping.
To be honest, I've never come across this word before. It doesn't seem to be widely used, though. A Google search doesn't bring up much, and I can't find any examples of it in the Tekstaro.

It is certainly in NPIV2002, though! It's interesting that it is linked with 'klinkovri' which seems to be an attempt to convey a similar meaning with existing roots.

Here's the definition of 'klinkovri' in NPIV2002:

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 12 января 2012 г., 12:47:42

According to Wictionary here the English word imbricate has a number of technical applications (in biology, geology, etc) and comes from Latin 'imbricatus' meaning tiled.

I guess that, at least, it is a useful addition to Esperanto's technical vocabulary.

The two contextualised uses that I have found ĉe Auld suggest a slightly wider meaning than overlap. More, entangled or entwined, enmeshed.

The French words imbrication and imbriquer also are given a somewhat wider definition -covering, interlocking, intermingling, overlapping, interleaving

(EastEnders dialogue? Stay out of it Tel. It's not worth it - Ne imbrikiĝu)

However, Esperanto needs a word for physical overlapping. This idea is clearly present in most European languages.

erinja (Показать профиль) 12 января 2012 г., 14:15:57

markotraviko:Okay, if you too Erinja are using the word 'laborhoroj" then I would guess this has more common usage than "horaro" or laboreja horaro" ect. Right?
In English we say "schedule" but in some contexts, we're really talking about certain events on the schedule (understood through context), and this is one of those times.

To me a "horaro" is a schedule of events for a period of time. In my opinion, your "horaro" matches mine if your horaro covers the same period of time. Therefore to ask whether someone's 'horaro' overlaps with yours sounds like asking whether someone's calendar overlaps with yours.

It doesn't matter whether their *calendar* overlaps. It matters that certain events on their calendar (or schedule) overlap with yours, which is why 'laborhoroj' makes sense in this context.

The word doesn't have to be 'laborhoroj' but it should be specific enough that this word is telling you which part of your schedule should be overlapping - whether it's work hours, free time, whatever.

markotraviko (Показать профиль) 12 января 2012 г., 16:24:20

erinja:
markotraviko:

In English we say "schedule" but in some contexts, we're really talking about certain events on the schedule (understood through context), and this is one of those times.

To me a "horaro" is a schedule of events for a period of time. In my opinion, your "horaro" matches mine if your horaro covers the same period of time. Therefore to ask whether someone's 'horaro' overlaps with yours sounds like asking whether someone's calendar overlaps with yours.

It doesn't matter whether their *calendar* overlaps. It matters that certain events on their calendar (or schedule) overlap with yours, which is why 'laborhoroj' makes sense in this context.

The word doesn't have to be 'laborhoroj' but it should be specific enough that this word is telling you which part of your schedule should be overlapping - whether it's work hours, free time, whatever.
Thanks for the tip on understanding through context. In this context I am placing my employee's work schedules in an Evernote notebook ( In Evernote a "notebook "is a group of notes). This notebook has been named by me "Horaroj". It's part of a stack of notebooks I have named after the company I work for so it's very clear to me that in this context "horaroj"are laborhoroj. However, if I were to discuss or write about these schedules outside of this Evernote application it would be better for me to use "laborhoroj". Is that right?

markotraviko (Показать профиль) 12 января 2012 г., 16:41:05

Chainy:I don't think 'imbriki' (to imbricate!?) is the word we're after. See the NPIV2002 definition:
I agree. This word imbriki looks like a description of roof tiling or scaling on a reptile or something similar to these examples.

It's okay, a two word phrase such as "parte koincidi"or in this case "rande koincidi" is fine for expressing this. A new word for this in E. might only further clutter the language . It's taken me some time to understand the importance of this. rido.gif

erinja (Показать профиль) 12 января 2012 г., 18:51:56

markotraviko:However, if I were to discuss or write about these schedules outside of this Evernote application it would be better for me to use "laborhoroj". Is that right?
You don't have to use "laborhoroj", you could even use "laborhoraroj" or "laboraj horaroj".

For your own personal use, of course, you could call them "fluffy bunnies" and so long as you understood that a fluffy bunny is a schedule of work hours, you'd be fine.

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