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Woodworking Router

de NJ Esperantist, 12 de gener de 2012

Missatges: 21

Llengua: English

Chainy (Mostra el perfil) 13 de gener de 2012 13.37.08

Here's the NPIV2002 entry for 'segi' (unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have any illustrations on this particular matter):

sudanglo (Mostra el perfil) 13 de gener de 2012 13.42.17

Chainy couldn't you make something from the function?

As I understand it a jigsaw is for cutting fancy (curved) shapes. It differs from an ordinary saw in that an ordinary saw cuts in straight lines.

So perhaps kurb-segilo or, better, ŝablon-segilo would do, though that would also cover a hand tool such as a coping saw.

Benson gives ĵigsegilo. But I didn't see ĵigo listed in NPIV in the sense of a jig as used in woodworking and fabrication.

While we are on the subject what is the generic Esperanto term for a power-tool?

EDIT: Ĵigo is of course listed in NPIV with reference to the picture puzzle with interlocking pieces.

Chainy (Mostra el perfil) 13 de gener de 2012 14.13.33

sudanglo:So perhaps kurb-segilo or, better, ŝablon-segilo would do, though that would also cover a hand tool such as a coping saw.
Yes, you came up with the same suggestion as me! To differentiate between 'coping saw' and 'jigsaw', then maybe we could use these words:

Coping saw = ŝablonsegilo
Jigsaw = elektra ŝablonsegilo (or ŝablona segmaŝino?)

sudanglo:While we are on the subject what is the generic Esperanto term for a power-tool?
Wouldn't that be 'elektra laborilo/instrumento'?

sudanglo:EDIT: Ĵigo is of course listed in NPIV with reference to the picture puzzle with interlocking pieces.
I don't think that word is used much, though. Most people say 'puzlo' for that. 'Ĵigo' generally refers just to the dance.

Chainy (Mostra el perfil) 13 de gener de 2012 14.43.12

Chainy:Coping saw = ŝablonsegilo
Jigsaw = elektra ŝablonsegilo (or ŝablona segmaŝino?)
I'm not sure about that suggestion for 'coping saw'. Perhaps it would be better to say 'framsegilo', or 'trapeza segilo'. That would leave '[elektra] ŝablonsegilo' for 'jigsaw'.

Just some ideas...

erinja (Mostra el perfil) 13 de gener de 2012 15.55.10

Chainy:
NJ Esperantist:My Benson dictionary has a nice selection of words under the headword 'saw'. He calls a jig saw 'ĵigsegilo.'
That sounds pretty weird to me. I think he just threw that one in as he couldn't think of anything else. "ĵig-" doesn't seem to be very international.
Benson is a great guy but unfortunately his dictionary has a reputation for somewhat arbitrary definitions. We used to call them "bensonaĵoj" in the MIT Esperanto club. For words for concepts not often discussed in Esperanto, I was nervous about using words I found in his dictionary, unless I found a second source to back up that usage.

I'm sure he did some kind of research before choosing those words but occasionally it seemed like the words were arbitrarily chosen, and based on English.

"ŝablonsegilo" is a good word for a jig saw, in my opinion.

A coping saw seems to have very diverse translations. It seems to be called a "leaf saw" in Danish and German, a "figure saw" in Dutch, and a "little saw" or "marquetry saw" in Spanish.

The Spanish definition would lead to it being called a "marketra segilo" in Esperanto, which isn't a bad choice.

(I got that root marketr/ from Wells; it means marquetry or inlay)

Chainy (Mostra el perfil) 13 de gener de 2012 16.34.00

erinja:A coping saw seems to have very diverse translations. It seems to be called a "leaf saw" in Danish and German
According to Wikipedia, in German it's Puksäge, with the 'Puk' being some random brand name introduced by a German manufacturer. "Sägeblatt" refers to the saw blade.

erinja:The Spanish definition would lead to it being called a "marketra segilo" in Esperanto, which isn't a bad choice.
Maybe, but I wonder if it's a good idea linking 'coping saw' specifically with 'marquetry'?

erinja (Mostra el perfil) 13 de gener de 2012 16.46.01

Chainy:According to Wikipedia, in German it's Puksäge,
Looks like we weren't reading the same German Wikipedia article, because the one I read (linked to from the Spanish version) was Laubsäge - which seems to direct back to the English fretsaw article.

I guess that not all languages disinguish between a fretsaw and a coping saw, and one question that we'd want to ask ourselves is, should Esperanto bother distinguishing or not?
erinja:The Spanish definition would lead to it being called a "marketra segilo" in Esperanto, which isn't a bad choice.
Maybe, but I wonder if it's a good idea linking 'coping saw' specifically with 'marquetry'?
I really don't know, honestly. However it doesn't sound unreasonable, considering that we use a coping saw for more than just coping, right? And a fretsaw is used for more than just fretwork.

But I guess the Esperanto-speaking woodworking enthusiasts would have to decide how finely they want to distinguish between the different saws, and which words are the most internationally understandable.

Miland (Mostra el perfil) 13 de gener de 2012 20.00.38

If it's of any help, in the Esperanto bildvortaro, page 129, entry 12 is a picture of a fretsaw. That is called arabesko-segilo.

sudanglo (Mostra el perfil) 13 de gener de 2012 20.38.19

A jigsaw puzzle perhaps gets its name from the original method of manufacture when the pieces were made from wood.

Anyway, it gave me the idea that puzlo-segilo could be added to this lengthening list of suggestions.

Trapeza segila clearly distinguishes fretsaws and coping saws of the hand tool variety from the more modern jigsaw power tool.

Benson may have cavalierly invented ĵigsegilo, but it at least potentially gives a word for a jig (maufacturing sense).

The coincidence with the dance doesn't present problem. In fact, at a stretch, you could see bobbing backwards and forwards of the blade in a vertical plane as a sort of jig (dance).

I think it gets my vote.

Chainy (Mostra el perfil) 13 de gener de 2012 20.39.55

Miland:If it's of any help, in the Esperanto bildvortaro, page 129, entry 12 is a picture of a fretsaw. That is called arabesko-segilo.
Thank you, Miland, for posting that about the Esperanto bildvortaro - I was wondering what it might say on the matter.

It's rather a muddle, though! According to your dictionary, arabesko-segilo means a fretsaw, and according to the picture here at Lernu, it means a jigsaw! Take a look at the power-tool that this man is using: Workshop

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