글: 101
언어: English
sudanglo (프로필 보기) 2012년 1월 18일 오전 11:53:09
It occurs to me that there is a fourth, though relatively rare one, which you might call home-grown invention.
That is when the new root owes nothing to other languages, or to established words in Esperanto itself.
The provenance may be known eg Mojosa, Kabei, or totally mysterious eg Krokodili.
I suppose that some of Zamenhof's original inventions may fall into this category.
Kirilo81 (프로필 보기) 2012년 1월 19일 오후 8:08:53
sudanglo:Kirilo, if there is no 'tele', as you put it in Esperanto, then you are forced to consider televido (a very common word) as televid-o.For this reason I would like to see it replaced by televiz/o, which is international and doesn't harm the established rules of word formation.
But ask any Esperantist on the spur of the moment to parse televido (or to explain the word), then I feel confident that they will refer to vidi.
sudanglo:By the way what is the word you use for a TV set's remote?I haven't found a good one yet, I'm using right now pilotilo, built after Polish pilot.
erinja (프로필 보기) 2012년 1월 19일 오후 8:36:24
Many people call a remote a "clicker" in English, but I wouldn't expect an Esperanto speaker from another linguistic background to understand "klakilo".
It seems to me that "regilo" is a linguistically conservative choice that would still be widely understood. "televida regilo" in long form, if there were doubt as to which remote we're talking about (since stereo systems and other home electronics also have remotes)
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Like it or not, televid/ is an official root in Esperanto, from the 8th oficiala aldono. Of course anyone could decide to use another root, like *televiz/, but I don't see it catching on. Rightly or wrongly, televid/ is widely used and has 'official' status, so any other usage is likely to be seen as wrong.
sudanglo (프로필 보기) 2012년 1월 20일 오후 1:23:56
If 'televid' is a compound then you have a coincidence between the 'tele' of telegrafo and the 'tele' in 'televido'
So, either way, this example confounds those who say you can't have a word like alies because of alia. But of course you can.
Telegrafo shouldn't be parsed as tele-graf-o and alies shouldn't be parsed as ali-es.
Quod erat demonstrandum, methinks.
Chainy (프로필 보기) 2012년 1월 20일 오후 3:03:05
tommjames:On the alies theme, I just read an essay by Ken Miner, where he discusses the pros and cons of that construction in comparison to Bertilo Wennergren's suggested alternative aliula. Perhaps some readers will find it interesting/informative.One thing that puzzled me in the article by Ken Miner is his use of the expression "anekdota evidento".
He's obviously referring to 'anecdotal evidence', but I think that would be 'anekdotaj indikoj/indikaĵoj', don't you think?
erinja (프로필 보기) 2012년 1월 20일 오후 3:42:19
sudanglo:So, either way, this example confounds those who say you can't have a word like alies because of alia. But of course you can.Except that Zamenhof never specifically prohibited televid/o, telegraf/o, telegram/o, etc. The formation of these words is clearly different from that of *alies, at any rate.
To me, this quasi-prefix tele- falls under the heading of an internationalism, rather than a breakup of the correlative table.
But don't let me stop you! If you want to go around using "alies" and letting people make assumptions about you as a result, go right ahead.
People might start to think that you support Esperanto reforms! They will probably suppose that you also support -iv- and -iĉ- since these things tend to go together with alies-supporters. They will probably also suppose that you're an avid reader of the Guardian and you voted for the Lib Dems in the last election. You will lose all of your traditionalist street cred, and people will go around the forum talking about "sudanglo's proposed language reform".
EDIT: I think Ken Miner used an anglicism, Chainy. Surely he didn't mean to say "evidento", as it doesn't make sense in the context.
tommjames (프로필 보기) 2012년 1월 20일 오후 3:47:46
Chainy:He's obviously referring to 'anecdotal evidence', but I think that would be 'anekdotaj indikoj/indikaĵoj', don't you think?'Indikaĵoj' is the word I would use, yes. But I've seen 'evidento' used quite a few times for it, by Miner and others. A Google search turns up quite a lot of results too, so I would be hesitant to say you can't use it just because adjective roots used as nouns usually show the eco in a less concrete and more abstract way.