Missatges: 79
Llengua: English
tommjames (Mostra el perfil) 10 de febrer de 2012 15.09.54
EldanarLambetur:I recently read this document:Very nice. Ed Robertson is to be commended on an informative and engrossing essay.
http://cindymckee.com/librejo/Word_formation_in_Es...
He makes an interesting observation which I find relatively persuasive:
"All of this is proof that in Esperanto, it is words that are compounded, not roots."
Which is exactly why it's wrong to say the effects of compounding lead to a "breakdown" or "abandonment" of the idea that roots have an inherent class.
sudanglo (Mostra el perfil) 11 de febrer de 2012 11.53.13
sudanglo (Mostra el perfil) 11 de febrer de 2012 12.25.02
"All of this is proof that in Esperanto, it is words that are compounded, not roots."Hang about Tom. How can you draw the conclusion, you did.
It seem perfectly clear.
If words are compounded then vestejo may be derived from vesto or from vesti (giving two separate meanings for vestejo).
If Vest has an inherent grammatical class (verb or noun) then vestejo has one meaning only depending on what the grammatical class is deemed to be.
In the case of manĝejo on the other hand, it makes little difference to the meaning, whether you derive from manĝo or manĝi.
Ed proposes the concept of root-word, eg martelo or haki - NOT martel noun root and hak verb root.
This cuts the gordian knot admirably.
tommjames (Mostra el perfil) 11 de febrer de 2012 15.13.58
sudanglo:Hang about Tom. How can you draw the conclusion, you did.Because words are not roots.
orthohawk (Mostra el perfil) 11 de febrer de 2012 15.34.42
sudanglo:If MC Butler is to be believed (in his Esp-Eng dictionary, he notes vesto and vesti to both be "fundamenta" and given their definitions by Dr. Z himself) then this whole discussion can't really be applied to vest- since the inherent class theory really only works when it deals with single class roots."All of this is proof that in Esperanto, it is words that are compounded, not roots."Hang about Tom. How can you draw the conclusion, you did.
It seem perfectly clear.
If words are compounded then vestejo may be derived from vesto or from vesti (giving two separate meanings for vestejo).
If Vest has an inherent grammatical class (verb or noun) then vestejo has one meaning only depending on what the grammatical class is deemed to be.
In the case of manĝejo on the other hand, it makes little difference to the meaning, whether you derive from manĝo or manĝi.
Ed proposes the concept of root-word, eg martelo or haki - NOT martel noun root and hak verb root.
This cuts the gordian knot admirably.
Miland (Mostra el perfil) 11 de febrer de 2012 16.26.54
Butler indicates that vestejo could be used for a cloakroom or a dressing or changing room. The context would determine its significance.
ludomastro (Mostra el perfil) 11 de febrer de 2012 23.55.19
Miland:This discussion raises the general issue of useful but ambiguous words...Indeed. I am curious if 100% clarity is always needed. Granted, the 8-year-old me would have appreciated some way to differentiate between "lead" and "lead*" on standardized vocabulary tests but such things have never been problematic given context.
Why wouldn't context be acceptable for determining meaning?
Borrowing from everyone's favorite example: "brosilo" is simply redundant and probably marks you as a novice; however, I doubt comprehension suffers. It's friend, "kombo" also seems logical enough. It is the noun form of "kombi" so it would either be "a comb" as in 'I gave her hair a good comb.' or the tool used to comb with - depending on context. Again, it is non-standard and marks you as a beginner but I don't see comprehension suffering.
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* for those who are curious:
lead-1 - to show the way to by going in advance
lead-2 - heavy element from the carbon group with the symbol 'Pb' (from Latin: plumbum) and atomic number 82
sudanglo (Mostra el perfil) 12 de febrer de 2012 10.56.54
An Aŭtejo, which I would imagine to cover a car-port or domestic garage, is never a place where personoj aŭtas - nor is a Hundejo and place where hundoj hundas.
In principle, perhaps, if there were such places in the real world, that didn't already have a suitable word, then these meanings might be employed.
What exists in the real world and needs to be talked about is a major determinate of meaning.
I could see martelejo referring to some sort of workshop where martelado (panel-beating?) occurred, and this meaning seems more likely than a specific location for the storage of hammers.
Hyperboreus (Mostra el perfil) 14 de febrer de 2012 8.09.29