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Do you know about "La Loko"?

de pauxleto, 2012-februaro-11

Mesaĝoj: 34

Lingvo: English

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-12 12:07:30

When I was learning Esperanto, the university don who was the designated Senior Member of the university Esperanto society (at that time it was a rule that all clubs and societies had to have a staff member) used to relate to us how, when travelling by aeroplane, he would use Esperanto as a kaŝlingvo for private conversations.

But now it strikes me that we never learnt who it was he used to take his trips with. Perhaps it was just a fellow linguist who wasn't really an Esperantist but knew enough of the basics and other languages to decode his comments.

I think I've remarked before that Esperanto would be not much use for the secret machinations of terrorists, as bombo and eksplodo are so guessable

36lima (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-13 18:05:50

Mustelvulpo: Remember, it's "kafo" not "cafo." Also, "komenci" is transitive and the iĝ suffix is needed to use it intransitively. "Monda paco komenciĝas kun kafo" means that coffee is included in the beginning of world peace. I got the impression that your slogan is to mean that coffee is an instrument to help start world peace. If that's the case, "Monda paco komenciĝas per kafo" would be a better way to word it.

I really would love to see a coffee shop like this. I wish that there was more interst in Esperanto in the U.S.
Ah, yep, thanks for the corrections.

I've always thought that more people would be interested in Esperanto in the U.S. if it were associated with a younger crowd (like it seems to be in Europe).

The guys in my local club are all older and I'm no spring chicken myself (41) and I have problems seeing a younger group feeling comfortable participating in our meetings (heck, I feel a bit intimidated at times).

I think a hip (did I just date myself?) coffee shop or diner/bar would be a good way to get a younger crowd interested.

But, it's just daydreaming at this point. Maybe one day if my stock options ever amount to anything I'll actually try to make it happen.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-13 18:19:00

European clubs as a whole tend to be about as geriatric as American clubs, in my opinion. The difference is that here in the US, we don't really have that thriving youth scene as a counterpoint.

Europe is densely populated and connected by relatively inexpensive transport options. In other words, it's easier for young Esperantists to get together cheaply, so youth events are well attended.

The US has an expensive train system and long distances to cover by bus. We aren't as dense as Europe and it the time and money necessary to travel limit the ability of young people to attend these kinds of get togethers.

EDIT:

I forgot to add before, part of my standard response to language reform projects is that most people decide not to learn Esperanto without ever learning its specific linguistic features. The corollary is that most people decide never to learn it without even realizing that most Esperanto clubs are fairly geriatric. sal.gif

pdenisowski (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-13 19:18:03

1Guy1:
erinja: Some people seem to think that they have the right to listen to anyone's conversation and understand it, even complete strangers in a public place.
That to me just highlights how useful Esperanto could be as a 'secret language' in situations where one doesn't wish to be overheard. rideto.gif
That's what Klingon is for ridulo.gif

36lima (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-14 01:08:11

erinja:European clubs as a whole tend to be about as geriatric as American clubs, in my opinion.
Well, maybe that means there's an opportunity for some of the active younger Esperantists to step into leadership roles in the near future.

I've been listening to Musaiko and there's some pretty cool music but there's also some really awful stuff as well (I know it's not just me because my daughters bust out laughing every time some of the songs get played). Additionally, most of the movies I've seen have been geared towards learning rather than being really engaging and well-acted. You can only watch Mazi and Gerda Malaperis so many times before you want more. rido.gif

I think a really good Esperanto movie could be made (and maybe has but I haven't seen it). I personally think that some translated works are actually better in Esperanto (I know that The Hobbit is significantly more amusing to me in Esperanto than in English).

Oh well, I'll probably start with the Kafejo in a few years if no one else has done it by then. I'll leave the movies to the more talented and photogenic Esperantists. lango.gif

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-14 02:10:00

There aren't any good Esperanto movies. We don't really have the population to support it. The best use of Esperanto in film that I have seen is use of Esperanto to make subtitles for movies from various countries. I've seen some interesting Russian movies, for example, with Esperanto subtitles, which are likely not available with subtitles in another language I speak.

The big problem with movies is production values. We are so used to seeing films with professional production values that if you see a film that looks a bit less slick, it looks really amateurish and lame, even if the script is otherwise ok. A few years back, a film was made in Yiddish. I bought it even though I knew it wouldn't be anything high quality, I just wanted to have a modern film in Yiddish. Its production values were pretty bad, about on par with something like Gerda Malaperis. Interestingly, old Yiddish films frmo the 30's and 40's look much more professional (because they were! Because there was actually a Yiddish film industry at the time)

The music is very hit or miss, as you've noticed. Mainly miss, but quality is improving with time.

Esperantists, like small children, will dance to anything, without much regard for quality.l

36lima (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-14 02:20:52

erinja:
Esperantists, like small children, will dance to anything, without much regard for quality.l
O.k. that made me chuckle. Thanks for that! okulumo.gif

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-14 02:33:27

36lima:
erinja:
Esperantists, like small children, will dance to anything, without much regard for quality.
O.k. that made me chuckle. Thanks for that! okulumo.gif
I have to confess, it's not totally original!

I was at SES, which has concerts practically every night. As usual, tons of people were getting up and dancing. I sat on the sidelines with some friends, just sort of watching; "Wow, Esperantists will dance to anything", one friend said. "It's kind of cute", another friend said. "Kind of like little kids", I added.

Sort of ... cute and naive, but a teeny bit pathetic at the same time.

36lima (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-14 03:16:40

O.k. I suppose it wouldn't be fair to talk about Esperanto music (and the lack of quality in general) without mentioning an artist and album that I actually like.

"Carina kantas por vi en Esperanto" is a pretty good album in general (at least in my opinion). I especially like Kantu Vian Sorton.

There, now my conscience is settled - at least on the subject of Esperanto music.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-14 12:37:21

The last couple disks of Dolchamar have pretty professional sounding production values (Rebela Sono and Trejn tu noŭer).

Trejn tu noŭer isn't 100% in Esperanto, it's in a sort of mix of languages that seems fashionable in a certain genre of European music in the last couple years. I like both of those disks, and they compare favorably with the rest of my playlist in terms of quality, it's not like having a garage band mixed in with your studio albums, which sometimes happens with Esperanto stuff.

I can't comment on the quality of the first Dolchamar disk, "Lingvo Intermonda"; I don't own it and have never listened to it all the way through, it has a different style of music that isn't to my taste.

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