I think this will be relevant here at lernu! because my point is using Esperanto, even though the subject was about another auxiliary language. Earlier today I made the following crosspost on the AUXLANG mailing list at Brown University and the latinosineflexione mailing list at Yahoo! Groups:

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Barandovská-Frank, Vĕra
De Latino sine flexione Centenario
(Ein Jahrhundert Latino sine flexione)
San Marino : Distribuo per Akademia Libroservo, c2003
100 p. ; 21 cm.
ISBN: 3929853140
Library of Congress call number: PM8401 .B28 2003
Includes some bibliography.

Written in Esperanto with German translation in parallel columns. A
fascinating and fairly easy to read short book on the *original*
Interlingua, later known as Latino sine Flexione. Although I am not an
expert Esperantist (I do not read German at all), I was able to read most
of the text without trouble. One interesting stylistic aspect, of the E-o
text at least, is that many sentences are of the form PVS, predicate -
verb - subject, which took a little getting used to but was no real
problem. (What the author's native language is was not clear, although one
entry in the bibliography leads to the speculation that it might be Czech.)

It contains a brief sketch of the life of Giuseppe Peano and then a
considerable discussion of LsF itself, along with valuable material on the
development and subsequent history of the language. There is also some
worthwhile material on constructed international auxiliary languages in
general. A valuable book, if you can find it. I live near Washington, DC,
and there is a copy in the US Library of Congress, where I read it earlier
today. Recommended for anyone interested in LsF who can read either
Esperanto or German.

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I did not have an E-o / English dictionary with me while I was sitting quietly in the main reading room of the world's largest library, but even so I was able to understand (I estimate) at least 95% of the E-o text. Even though Latino sine Flexione (the original Interlingua, before IALA usurped the name) is my personal (please note) favorite auxiliary language, I have no illusions that it will make a comeback. My point is that Esperanto is adequate even for learnedly discussing "competitors."

bartlett22183:Even though Latino sine Flexione (the original Interlingua, before IALA usurped the name) is my personal (please note) favorite auxiliary language, I have no illusions that it will make a comeback. My point is that Esperanto is adequate even for learnedly discussing "competitors."

I think Esperanto is more than adequate for discussion almost anything.

That said, I've been pretty disappointed by how other auxiliary languages are discussed in Esperanto-language publications. For example, I recently read "Esperanto Sin Mitoj" and there was almost as much discussion of Klingon (!) as of Interlingua (which is very much alive and well and probably the number two auxiliary language in terms of longevity, speakers, and literature).

I don't think this is (necessarily) due to prejudice, but rather a lack of knowledge or awareness among Esperanto speakers.

Interestingly, the British Interlingua Society published a book "Kio estas Interlingua" which is an excellent explanation of Interlingua in Esperanto.

(See attached photo)

Amike,

Paul

In the still-active thread "What do you consider cool ?" this was the book I was referencing. The original issue of that thread (it seems to have strayed slightly) as I understood it was how to get Esperanto more widely used, and I offered the LsF book as an example of how a serious subject could be treated in both a "national" language and E-o. I now realize that the LsF book was apparently written first in E-o and then translated into German, but it just as well might have been the other way around.

Today many significant nonfiction (at least) writings, especially if they are not too long, have summaries or even accompanying translations in English if they are originally written in something else. If, somehow, more works (I am thinking especially of short scientific, engineering, or technical items) could have an accompanying Esperanto summary (or even translation, if not too lengthy), that might get some people to take the language more seriously. Unfortunately, perhaps (and I say this even as a native English speaker), overcoming the lead of English may be difficult.

Bartlett, there is no point in engaging in battles that one has little chance of winning - where the odds are too stacked in favour of the opponent.

I get the impression that English is so entrenched in the international scientific/technical/engineering/academic fields that one would be on a hiding to nothing to fight the fight in this arena.

Where Esperanto is demonstrably superior is in face-to-face social interaction by ordinary members of the public who don't share a common language.

In this field, Esperanto is strikingly successful in comparison to results achievable with the use of English as the lingua franca.

It is probably so that at the present time English is at the front of the field in "learned" writings. Just as at different times Latin and Greek were, especially in the west. Aramaic was once a major international auxiliary language for part of the world, as was later Persian in a widespread region. Look at the ancient influence of Chinese in east Asia. Auxiliary languages have come and gone throughout history.

At present, English's star is in the ascendant, but some people have said to watch out for Mandarin. And, of course, if one just throws in the towel and says that English has won the event (which I myself think is subject to challenge), then, obviously, neither Esperanto nor any other constructed auxlang will carry the field.

Granted, in face to face interactions, Esperanto may well be superior to English. I cannot say from experience, because I myself have and have had literally zero experience in that matter (and due to personal factors probably could not master the oral/aural, as distinguished from written, language adequately to try, anyway). But if Esperanto is, how is it to be spread? That is what I see as the crucial question. And using it in "learned" works, even along with some English, certainly would not hurt, in my opinion.

Aŭiliary languages have come and gone throughout history.

Yes, but this tends to happen rather slowly.

I suspect we are racing the clock now with Esperanto.

In the next 25 years we will probably see mobile phones with real-time translations apps - aural and oral as well as text.

bartlett22183:At present, English's star is in the ascendant, but some people have said to watch out for Mandarin.

I don't see the current form of Mandarin becoming an auxiliary language. The grammar is easy enough (though quite different than what we're used to), but the tones and the characters are difficult to learn.

I've used Esperanto to discuss my own language here on Lernu. I would agree that it's adequate enough to discuss the language itself and other constructed languages in general. Whether there's a bias when discussing 'competitors', I wouldn't be able to say. How do Esperantists generally feel about Ido or Volapuk?

razlem:

bartlett22183:At present, English's star is in the ascendant, but some people have said to watch out for Mandarin.

I don't see the current form of Mandarin becoming an auxiliary language. The grammar is easy enough (though quite different than what we're used to), but the tones and the characters are difficult to learn.

As for the tones, of course, small children can learn almost any language, tonal or non-tonal. (Vide Pei's One Language for the World.) Right here in the USA there are a few public (state) schools which have immersion language programs for Chinese (presumably Mandarin). Yes, the writing system is questionable, but Romanization with diacritics might yet win the day.

razlem:I've used Esperanto to discuss my own language here on Lernu. I would agree that it's adequate enough to discuss the language itself and other constructed languages in general. Whether there's a bias when discussing 'competitors', I wouldn't be able to say. How do Esperantists generally feel about Ido or Volapuk?

I myself suspect that the majority of Esperantists more or less ignore other auxiliary languages, Ido, Volapük, Interlingua, or nearly any other, although it is probably the case that many (not all!) users of those languages can at least read much of an Esperanto text. As another poster pointed out there was/is a book explaining Interlingua in Esperanto. (I do not have access to a copy but would love to read it.)

sudanglo:In the next 25 years we will probably see mobile phones with real-time translations apps - aural and oral as well as text.

When that happens, Esperanto will die off a fair bit, but will later recover. But it's made it's mark on history and as a result will always be present in some form or another. Perhaps learned by those that either had Esperantists in the family, interested in history (Latin) or even still just a passed on language.

This is why we must form an Esperanto state!

razlem:I don't see the current form of Mandarin becoming an auxiliary language. The grammar is easy enough (though quite different than what we're used to), but the tones and the characters are difficult to learn...

It all depends on economy and political powers, never on easiness of the language - English is not easy at all. If China rises to global superpower, people will learn Chinese just as they happen to learn English today - unless someone discovers Esperanto again.