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The 'New Deal' problem

de sudanglo, 2012-februaro-22

Mesaĝoj: 37

Lingvo: English

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-22 11:07:52

During the Great Depression various economic initiatives were undertaken which are referred to collectively as the New Deal.

Look up Google translate and you will find that language after language has taken this term (with the original spelling) but rendering it with a pronunciation consistent with the phonology of the language in question.

But this can't be done in Esperanto.

You can't say Nova Dilo in Esperanto- because dilo already means a piece of timber, and anyway this would lose the recognizability of the expression, and New Deal is unpronounceable in E.

A similar problem exists with the expression 'subprime loans' where the various European languages have translated 'loans', but left 'subprime' unchanged.

But you can't have subprime-kreditoj in Esperanto. How would you pronounce it and why an adverb?

So, we have situation with truly international words but rule 15 doesn't provide us with a solution.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-22 11:40:35

Esperanto Wikipedia treats it like a foreign word and simply refers to it as "New Deal", which is translated at the beginning of the text as "Nova Interkonsento"

Russian Wikipedia translates as something like "New Policy" or "New Course".

I kind of like that "New Course" translation, because it implies that the country is going in a completely different direction, which was the point of the New Deal. That would make it "Nova Vojo" in Esperanto, to follow that line of reasoning.

joewolz (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-22 18:57:42

Wouldn't one use "ne primo" for subprime? I know the prime rate is meant to be a constant, like a prime number.

Or possibly "malprimo" to represent the opposite of a "prime" loan?

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-22 20:20:10

It's not prime like a prime number (not divisible by anything but itself and one)

It's prime like "best" or "peak". Like "prime time television", it's the peak of the television watching hours. Or prime grades of meats, the best ones.

Subprime is less than the best - in this case, considerably less than the best.

The Esperanto word "primo" only refers to mathematical concepts, as far as I'm aware.

Subprime, in the sense of loans, would perhaps be "malbonkredita", because it's people with bad credit (or no credit) who get the subprime loans; they aren't eligible for the better loans.

pdenisowski (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-23 01:05:56

erinja:Subprime, in the sense of loans, would perhaps be "malbonkredita", because it's people with bad credit (or no credit) who get the subprime loans; they aren't eligible for the better loans.
How about "kreditaĉa"? rideto.gif

A subprime borrower would be a "kreditaĉulo" and having bad credit would be "kreditaĉi."

But I agree with the above comment that "subprime" has become internationalized : I see it in both German and Polish, and even Japanese uses "サブプライムローン問題" (sabupuraimuroon mondai - subprime loan crisis or issue)

Amike,

Paul

pdenisowski (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-23 01:32:43

erinja:The Esperanto word "primo" only refers to mathematical concepts, as far as I'm aware.
The PIV 2005 has three definitions for prim/o : a prime number, prime (6 a.m. religious service) and prime (fencing position). The only definition it has for prim/a is the numerical one.

Amike,

Paul

RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-23 04:01:37

It might be worthwhile to look at it from higher up, so to speak.

Say there are three tiers of credit:

Top tier : prime, best terms
Middle tier : subprime, has credit, but has poorer terms
Bottom tier: no credit

Maybe Supronivela, mezonivela, and malsupronivela kredito?

Of course, that's just one model. I suppose there technically may be more than three levels you could divide credit up into. Three seems kind of a convenient number, though, which makes it tempting to use.

Although one could make the case that "top" doesn't necessarily mean "best", I think most people would understand it to mean that even without it being explained.

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-23 11:04:18

Well how about that? Google translate which now offers translation into and from Esperanto, shows 'prima situo' for prime location.

Actually I think that Esperanto needs a short way of expressing the idea of top-ranking and I don't see why we shouldn't extend the meaning of 'prima' to include this.

Primo can remain meaning a prime number, since I think it is going to be obvious from context that whether the meaning of prima situo or prim-hora televido is going to be prime location or prime time television rather than the location of a prime or prime-number time of television.

It happens fairly often in Esperanto that the meanings of the various parts of speech may be specialized.

For example 'manifesto' (politics and ship cargo list) versus 'manifesta' (clearly evident)

tommjames (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-23 11:45:43

sudanglo:Actually I think that Esperanto needs a short way of expressing the idea of top-ranking
How about primara? Revo has the difinition "Unuaranga, unuagrada."

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2012-februaro-23 12:53:26

tommjames:
sudanglo:Actually I think that Esperanto needs a short way of expressing the idea of top-ranking
How about primara? Revo has the difinition "Unuaranga, unuagrada."
Yes Tom, Esperanto has primara and sekundara. But despite def. 1. in NPIV, I feel that this conveys a different aspect, of first and second position.

You can have primary and secondary effects but neither may be good. Whereas prima is the best, most desirable.

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