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de komenstanto, 26 februarie 2012

Contribuții/Mesaje: 83

Limbă: English

sudanglo (Arată profil) 3 martie 2012, 22:30:11

if there is something in the real world like chair, then it doesn't become a verb
K, you have mangled what I said.

Restating:- If there is no obvious real-world action (or reasonable verbal interpretation) linked with the idea conveyed by the noun, then there is no use of the noun-based verb.

When there IS a noun-derived verb the nature of the relationship between the noun and verb may vary substantially:

Consider the nature of the relationship in the following pairs:

Biciklo - bicikli
Tunelo - tuneli
Floro - flori
Planto - planti
Vesto - vesti
Loko - loki
Idioto - idioti

Evildela (Arată profil) 3 martie 2012, 22:54:22

Bluas is quite common, and in everyday speech. I've heard and read it many times

komenstanto (Arată profil) 3 martie 2012, 23:26:59

RiotNrrd:
komenstanto:Ah, I found it...
If you'd like to read the book without waiting for it to arrive from Amazon, David Jordan (the author) has posted the text of the book to his website, freely available to all.

As you will see, it isn't quite what you think it is. But it IS a really good book, and I heartily recommend it to anyone who has progressed past the "rank beginner" stage.
Yes, thanks, I dont care to buy things online. Havent done it in a while.

komenstanto (Arată profil) 3 martie 2012, 23:43:39

Evildela:Bluas is quite common, and in everyday speech. I've heard and read it many times
So colors and adjectives might easier become verbs than nouns.

And apparently the nouns that do become verbs are sort of not specific, like not a specific animal name. It would have to be a more general noun and perhaps not animal at all. About seĝi versus loki I am going to think of it as a colloquialism and use loki correctly.

Hyperboreus (Arată profil) 4 martie 2012, 01:13:58

Forigite

komenstanto (Arată profil) 4 martie 2012, 02:55:53

I know colors are adjectives. Yes, adjectives can be verbs, but in Esperanto maybe things are strange. One rule says verbs can only be ever transitive or intransitive, while another says in certain situations, they swing both ways. Another says you can make a noun into a verb, but another says that only certain nouns that one intuitively realizes are normal can be verbs, but not seĝo. One cant even say "sidi" or "to sit", but instead "loki" meaning "to locate". I feel there is something strange in it, some kind of "emperor wears no clothes" effect in the rules.

Hyperboreus (Arată profil) 4 martie 2012, 03:14:39

Forigite

komenstanto (Arată profil) 4 martie 2012, 03:42:17

I attempted to post in the Esperanto forum. I looked up each verb I used on the Reta Vortaro. I found in every case there were indications in the definition whether or not a verb is transitive or intransitive. That thing I need, an agreed upon source other than another random Esperantist to understand verbs. The Reta Vortaro shows each verb in I assume every form it can take, with the ig or iĝ endings, or both like "fari", which swings both ways. I will just take the dictionary verbatim for verbs.

komenstanto (Arată profil) 4 martie 2012, 05:20:15

The reta vortaro has "simii" as a verb though. Looks like I am at least allowed to monkey around.

erinja (Arată profil) 4 martie 2012, 08:36:42

komenstanto:The Reta Vortaro shows each verb in I assume every form it can take, with the ig or iĝ endings,
No, that's not the case at all. Esperanto dictionaries most certainly do *not* show every form a verb can take. Reta Vortaro shows a few variants of a verb in order to give some sense of how a word might be used in its varied forms, but it would be impossible to give every correct permutation of each words. ReVo only picks some of the most common ones.

We don't learn our verbs by memorizing transitivity, root class, and each possible compound form from the dictionary. That would be crazy, and a waste of time.

The key to understanding Esperanto verbs is learning their meanings, and learning the meanings of the affixes. After that, logic will do most of the rest of the work for you.

Certain combinations of a root and a suffix flat out don't work. It's not because those combinations are simply prohibited and not listed in dictionaries. It's because some root-suffix combinations don't make logical sense.

There are a few common combinations whose meanings might not be easily guessable, you have to sort of learn them from scratch. But they are relatively few. "fariĝi", for instance, means "to become".

ig and iĝ are more complex than simply changing the transitivity of a verb. When you learn the actual meanings that the suffixes can bring to the verbs, the varied meanings make more sense.

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