Ujumbe: 58
Lugha: English
Chainy (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2012 2:07:24 alasiri
xBlackWolfx:I read a while back that its not ungrammatical to use 'esti' with an adjective, as in 'La cxielo estas blua', because most languages on this plant dont do that (and I'm a linguist, I know for a fact that that part's true), instead they just use the adjective itself as a verb. Thus, 'the sky is blue' is now 'la cxielo bluas'.It's not ungrammatical because most languages don't do that? I presume you meant to say 'but', rather than 'because'. I certainly have doubts about that statement. But either way, it's rather irrelevant, as Esperanto has its own methods.
In Esperanto, there is often a difference in meaning between the adjectival and verbal forms. See this PMEG section: Verbigo de perverba priskribo
xBlackWolfx (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2012 2:18:14 alasiri
Chainy (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2012 2:40:53 alasiri
xBlackWolfx:That was a typo, I meant not grammatical. It is NOT grammatical to say 'esti blua'.There's nothing wrong with 'esti blua'. In fact, that's the normal way of saying it in Esperanto. If you say 'La ĉielo bluas', then you are making a particular point to emphasize the striking blueness of the sky. PMEG advises against overusing such expressions, so as not to weaken the notion of special emphasis.
sudanglo (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2012 3:40:07 alasiri
For the first I would actually say "birdtimiga" (if the outfit scared birds). For the second I would not put in the -ig-.We appear to have the same feeling Paul.
Yes, of course, you could use a different way of expressing the scruffy unsuitability of a persons dress.
However, birdtimigula does seem to be more literal, actually for the job of scaring birds, whereas birdtimula seems more to conjure the idea of looking like a scarecrow.
And lunlumitaj stratoj seems better for moonlit streets than lunlumigitaj stratoj.
I very much had in mind semantics of -ig. as opposed to a grammatical function of -ig.
My suggestion is that an element, intransitively listed in the dictionary can sometimes be legitimately employed transitively without an automatic appending of an -ig.
The corollary is that adding the ig may shift the meaning.
xBlackWolfx (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2012 3:47:28 alasiri
pdenisowski (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2012 5:03:58 alasiri
xBlackWolfx:Why are we having a complex discussion about grammar for a language that is supposed to be insanely easy to learn? I've read that you can supposedly become fluent in Esperanto in just six weeks (I've been studying it for a decade, infact I became fluent in German in just four years).Easy to learn doesn't mean simplistic : one of the strengths of Esperanto is that it can express some very fine shades of meaning (if one wishes to do so).
I'm fluent in English (or at least I like to think that I am), and I've spent a great deal of time discussing the minutiae of English grammar, vocabulary, and usage.
xBlackWolfx (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2012 5:09:25 alasiri
erinja (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2012 5:09:33 alasiri
xBlackWolfx:Why are we having a complex discussion about grammar for a language that is supposed to be insanely easy to learn? I've read that you can supposedly become fluent in Esperanto in just six weeks (I've been studying it for a decade, infact I became fluent in German in just four years).You can have a complex discussion about chess. That doesn't mean that it's overwhelmingly difficult to learn how to play chess; it only means that within the rules of chess, there are a lot of facets to the game.
I don't know how much time you spend studying Esperanto based on what you spent with German, but if you were in an immersion environment with German, but studying Esperanto for an hour a week using books with incorrect information, then I can see why the German would have come more quickly.
It is absolutely not correct that we say "la ĉielo bluas" in preference to "la ĉielo estas blua". If your book told you that, then your book is simply wrong. It's a matter of style, one way or the other; both forms are possible, and both give slightly different meanings (as others have already mentioned)
EDIT:
The more you stay in the English forums, the slower your Esperanto is likely to progress. Your Esperanto will only improve if you use it.
xBlackWolfx (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2012 5:32:42 alasiri
I tried several languages when i was a teenager (including spanish, japanese, italian, french, and russian), but the only one I was able to learn well was German. That's because its the only one i had a use for, which in my case was listening to german metal bands.
And I'm not nearly as enthusiastic about Esperanto as I used to be, because after having studied linguistics for several years, I now know that an auxlang is outright impossible, languages are just far too diverse. Did you know that there isn't one single sound in the world that appears in all languages? Some are more common than others, but not one is universal. Honestly the only thing that keeps me interested is the fact that its something I have yet to conquer, and besides, I feel like an idiot only knowing two languages.
ludomastro (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 3 Machi 2012 7:27:46 alasiri
xBlackWolfx:... and besides, I feel like an idiot only knowing two languages.Reminds me of a joke.
Q: What do you call a person who speaks three languages?
A: Tri-lingual
Q: What do you call a person who speaks two languages?
A: Bi-lingual
Q: What do you call a person who speaks only one language?
A: An American
You are well ahead of the game!
In all seriousness, my Esperanto has improved dramatically by getting a few pen-pals. I'm sure that I still make mistakes; however, my confidence and comfort with Esperanto is growing. Drop me a line if you would like to chat.