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More translation help wanted

viết bởi richardhall, Ngày 04 tháng 9 năm 2007

Tin nhắn: 14

Nội dung: English

richardhall (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 09:06:00 Ngày 04 tháng 9 năm 2007

A friend of mine has written a poem which I thought I'd try to translate in E-o. When I first read it, I thought it would be straightforward, but translation's more difficult than it looks, isn't it. Here's the English version (there's a Welsh one too), called "One"

One,
I am One,
One of those,
One of them,
A gay man, One in ten,
Mentally ill, One in four,
A Christian, One in twenty-five?
Disabled, One of how many?
On benefit, One of so many,
A fraction, of a fraction,
Divided within a fraction,
But I am One,
And I count,
And you; my friend, are One, too.

And here's my first go at the Esperanto:

Unu,
Mi estas Unu,
Unu de tiuj
...
Geja viro, unu el dek,
Mensmalsano, unu el kvar
Kristano, unu el dudek kvin
Invalida, unu el kiom?
...
Ono da ono,
Dividita ene da ono,
Sed mi estas Unu,
Kaj mi gravas,
Kaj vi, mia amiko, estas ankaux Unu.

You'll see there are two blank lines. I couldn't think how to distinguish "One of those" from "One of them", especially as I don't think that second phrase is strictly correct English. And how does one say "On benefit" (ie, welfare) in Eo?
My friend seemed quite pleased when I suggested an Esperanto translation, and obviously I'd like to get it right. I'd be really grateful for any corrections and stylistic pointers.

Thanks in advance

Miland (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 09:42:09 Ngày 04 tháng 9 năm 2007

richardhall:
One of those,
One of them, ..
On benefit, One of so many,

Unu de tiuj,
..., ..
...,
Here's a suggestion.

Unu de tiuj,
Ano de minoritato, ..
Subvenciata, kiel tiom da homoj,

mnlg (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 10:22:48 Ngày 04 tháng 9 năm 2007

richardhall:Unu de tiuj
unu el tiuj

richardhall:Mensmalsano, unu el kvar
Mensmalsano = mental illness. Mensmalsana = mentally ill.

richardhall:Ono da ono
ono de ono.

breto de libroj = a shelf assigned to books.
breto da libroj = as many books as a shelf can contain.

so "ono da ono" would perhaps mean "a fraction's worth of a fraction" and I am not sure that makes sense (in either languages okulumo.gif

richardhall:I couldn't think how to distinguish "One of those" from "One of them"
unu el tiuj, unu el ili
And how does one say "On benefit" (ie, welfare) in Eo?
I'm going to say "en socia asistado" but I think there are more elegant ways to put this. Unfortunately I am not familiar with the term nor with its implications in your society.

Congratulations for the nice translation! I hope I could help.

donmiguel (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 11:59:28 Ngày 04 tháng 9 năm 2007

richardhall:A friend of mine has written a poem which I thought I'd try to translate in E-o. When I first read it, I thought it would be straightforward, but translation's more difficult than it looks, isn't it. Here's the English version (there's a Welsh one too), called "One"

One,
I am One,
One of those,
One of them,
A gay man, One in ten,
Mentally ill, One in four,
A Christian, One in twenty-five?
Disabled, One of how many?
On benefit, One of so many,
A fraction, of a fraction,
Divided within a fraction,
But I am One,
And I count,
And you; my friend, are One, too.

And here's my first go at the Esperanto:

Unu,
Mi estas Unu,
Unu de tiuj
...
Geja viro, unu el dek,
Mensmalsano, unu el kvar
Kristano, unu el dudek kvin
Invalida, unu el kiom?
...
Ono da ono,
Dividita ene da ono,
Sed mi estas Unu,
Kaj mi gravas,
Kaj vi, mia amiko, estas ankaux Unu.

Thanks in advance
another possibility would be:

One of those,
One of them,
Unu el tiuj cxi
Unu el tiuj (or exchange the two lines..cxi sounds so important when added to the repeat)

On benefit, One of so many
Pro/Por/Per/Laux merito/profito, unu el tiel multaj

or meritanta/profitanta?
I'm not sure i perfectly understand 'on benefit'. It seems quite ambigous. Could it have a negative & positive meaning at the same time? Maybe you could even use: Per rikolto

erinja (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 13:10:08 Ngày 04 tháng 9 năm 2007

donmiguel:
I'm not sure i perfectly understand 'on benefit'. It seems quite ambigous. Could it have a negative & positive meaning at the same time? Maybe you could even use: Per rikolto
"On benefit" never has a positive meaning. It means the same as the American "on welfare", and it means that you receive money from the government (or in the US, sometimes vouchers for free food) to help you live, because you are too poor to survive without help.

donmiguel (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 13:33:10 Ngày 04 tháng 9 năm 2007

erinja:"On benefit" never has a positive meaning. It means the same as the American "on welfare", and it means that you receive money from the government (or in the US, sometimes vouchers for free food) to help you live, because you are too poor to survive without help.
Dankon! So profitanta or 'preposition'+profito would be the best ones (of my proposals ridulo.gif )

richardhall (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 13:22:45 Ngày 06 tháng 9 năm 2007

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm still vexed by the translation of 'On benefit' though.

Miland (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 14:01:48 Ngày 06 tháng 9 năm 2007

richardhall:Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm still vexed by the translation of 'On benefit' though.
I used subvenciata because it means subsidised (by the state), and I think Don Lord used this term for being on UB in his book Cxiutaga Esperanto.

Miland (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 17:49:00 Ngày 06 tháng 9 năm 2007

Miland:
I used subvenciata because it means subsidised (by the state), and I think Don Lord used this term for being on UB in his book Cxiutaga Esperanto.
PS. Correction - looking up Lord's book, the verb subvenci is applied(p14) to 'workshy parasites subsidised by rates' (a former local tax based on property). Lord uses maldungan kompenson for UB. But I would still stand by my use of the term.

mnlg (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 18:01:06 Ngày 06 tháng 9 năm 2007

Back when I was a member of the council of IEJ, the word "subvencio" would come up very often in a perfectly plausible sense, meaning monetary help from the local or national government for cultural purposes (sovvenzione, in Italian). I still do not have a clear idea on the original meaning of "on benefit", so I won't suggest nor advise against this word in that context; nevertheless it may be used without implying any particular foul meaning, at least not that I know of.

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