Съобщения: 33
Език: English
acdibble (Покажи профила) 01 април 2012, 16:20:23
sudanglo:Are you saying that 6 divided by 3 would use partager in French?No, that would be "diviser", but to divide something into parts is "partager".
sudanglo (Покажи профила) 02 април 2012, 09:18:19
La urbestro dividis la opinion de la komitato.
Did the Mayor share the committee's opinion. Or did he cause a split?
I did find some use of 'partumi' in the Tekstaro but with the exception of one instance (see below) it was being used where partopreni was the meaning.
Lingva grupo estas ĉiu homa kolektivo kiu partumas saman lingvon (shares a common language)
EldanarLambetur (Покажи профила) 02 април 2012, 10:02:06
ORIGIN Old English scearu [division, part into which something may be divided] of Germanic origin; related to Dutch schare and German Schar ‘troop, multitude,’ also to shear. The verb dates from the late 16th century.
So seems like "share" at one point implied dividing too! So maybe enough use of "dividi" as "share" would take care of this issue! It's just more obvious that it is derived from the "divid-" root I guess....
Alternatively, since most of the shades of meaning of "share" are made by "kun + uzi/havi/etc.", can't we do something with "kun"? E.g. if we don't want to commit to one of those particular shades, and instead have a word that is as general as "share". Would "kunumi" work?
Mi kunumis la kukon kun ŝi
Or
Mi kunumis al ŝi la kukon
Fenris_kcf (Покажи профила) 02 април 2012, 11:26:04
About the origin of "share": That's what i wrote 3 posts before
EldanarLambetur (Покажи профила) 02 април 2012, 12:06:18
Fenris_kcf:@EldanarLambeturI only included the German bit for completeness of the quote, but the bit that was important for my comment was Old English "scearu", referencing my point about "share" originating with a "dividing" meaning
About the origin of "share": That's what i wrote 3 posts before
erinja (Покажи профила) 02 април 2012, 13:39:46
It doesn't obviously indicate sharing, to my ear.
Tjeri (Покажи профила) 02 април 2012, 14:24:18
Hyperboreus (Покажи профила) 02 април 2012, 14:43:13
sudanglo (Покажи профила) 02 април 2012, 18:59:17
What is the problem with using "dividi'" for both "to divide" and "to share"?The problem HB is in relation to contexts where what you share is indivisible, and where dividi can produce quite different meanings, depending on whether it is interpreted as share or divide.
I repeat my example:
La urbestro dividis la opinion de la komitato.
In classic usage this means The Mayor shared the opinion of the committee. But it can equally mean some were for him, some were against.
I have no problem with your cake sentences and accept that dividi kun can mean share in this context - to share the cake you have to separate it into parts.
But, Lasu min dividi kun vi la malĝojon kaj la ĝojon - vi havu la malĝojon kaj mi prenos la ĝojon.
The Esperanto root is not a false friend. Divide (in English) is dividi.
Another example where confusion may arise - Ni dividu la ĉambron. Is this home improvement, or sharing a room?
It took some time for Esperanto to get round to making the distinction between disillusionment and disappointment, they were initially bracketed together under seniluziĝi. Arguments from historic usage are not always reliable.
We must not confuse sharing with dividing, even if sharing often involves dividing.
I'm not saying you can't express the idea of sharing in a particular context in Esperanto. But it certainly is a headache for a bi-lingual dictionary. Just plonking down dividi for share won't do.
Hyperboreus (Покажи профила) 02 април 2012, 19:12:38