There is something distinctly fishy about the sole of a language

By the way what exactly is aural sex?

There simply are too many words in English with the same sound but differentiated in meaning by spelling.

And good mourning to you.

I teach and I am seeing that the yougest generation is solving this problem for us. My US students write the words of US English much as they are spoken. They write "luv" and "b'cause" and "rite". This is according to US usage and I can imagine that students in other English speaking countries are doing the same in their variations. No prob! The world has lived with this before -just think of how Dutch and High German separated peaceably, as did Portuguese from Latin as well as Spanish. Ah, to be human is to have fun. I luv it!

Bruso:
But I think that, noticeably over a period of decades, the pronunciation I hear is actually getting closer to the spelling. As a child I don't remember hearing anyone pronounce the "t" in "often" or "soften". Now I hear it all the time, mostly from younger people.

The written language influences the speach. Such things happen in other languages too. From a foreigners point of view the English spelling is definitely less of a problem than pronounciation - and now it seems that is the case for young native speakers as well! Spoken language contains so many homonymes that it is often impossible to understand the meaning, if you are not familiar with the most subtle rules of word order. The writing on the other hand is often clear (with many exeptions like read-read and so on).

A quick fix now to change the writing to conform completely with the actual pronounciation (of some specified people) would cause such problems to all trying to learn English that it would most probably lead to fina venko for Esperanto.

acdibble:

Hyperboreus:I would be surprised if such a venture hasn't yet been undertaken by somebody...

The Shavian alphabet.

One of George Bernard Shaw's pet causes was spelling reform for the English language. He was a popular and influential guy, and even he couldn't get much accomplished beyond (if I remember correctly) getting "Mr." and "Mrs." changed to "Mr" and "Mrs".

For a take on simlified English spelling from about 1945, take a look at Meihem In Ce Klasrum.

This thread is off-topic for this forum, and I hope that anyone with an interest in discussing it will take the discussion to the Esperanto-language forums.

Rugxdoma skribis: "From a foreigners point of view the English spelling is definitely less of a problem than pronounciation".
I indeed do agree. I'm in touch with English almost everyday. Although I have no peculiar difficulty to pronounce, I very often miss a word of two of what people say.

erinja:This thread is off-topic for this forum, and I hope that anyone with an interest in discussing it will take the discussion to the Esperanto-language forums.

At the risk of appearing flippant, how is it off topic? The sub-title to this forum is "This is a place for discussing various topics in English." It doesn't specify what the topics should be.

Saluton!,

That reminds me... there is a poem about pronunciation (I will say, for braves, that there are not translation to Esperanto ), do you know it? "The Chaos" it was written by G. Nolst Trenite. Several read it at Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6JzYkj5Pns

Read it aloud:

Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.

Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.

Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation's OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.

Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.

Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.

Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.

[ ... ]

lernu! is a website for learning Esperanto. Would you come to our English-language forums for advice on getting a stain out of your shirt or repairing a broken chair? If you had a website with computer forums, one of which was called "On various topics", would you assume that the forum was for topics related to computers, or would you go to that forum to ask for a foolproof recipe for apple pie?

It's an Esperanto website, so "various topics" should be understood in the context to mean any topic relating to Esperanto. The only reason why this site has forums that are not in Esperanto is to enable beginners to discuss topics related to Esperanto in a language that they're more comfortable with. It doesn't make sense to come to an Esperanto website to discuss motorcycle maintenance, the political system of Trinidad and Tobago, basket weaving, or the revision of English spelling - unless you want to discuss these topics in Esperanto, in our Esperanto-language forums.

It's ok if a thread starts off relating to Esperanto and diverges somewhat, but if a thread is start to finish unrelated, this isn't the appropriate section of the forums to post it in.

[ ... ]

Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.

Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation -- think of Psyche!
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.

Finally, which rhymes with enough --
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give up!!!

"The Chaos" G. Nolst Trenite