Meldinger: 12
Språk: English
EldanarLambetur (Å vise profilen) 2012 4 7 16:07:13
Mi (ne) scias/certas....
Plus "what kind/type of" something. E.g.
...kia pentristo...
But that this "kia (thing)" is also the object of some phrase. E.g.
"... I should/will/etc. contact."
So, an example sentence of this type might be "I'm not certain what kind of painter I will contact".
Is this as simple as:
Mi ne certas pri kia pentristo mi kontaktos.
It seems weird that I can't mark the "n" there, is that just grammatically wrong? Do I need a "ke" in there? or "kiu"? Or a re-structure? Am I using "kia" or "pri" inappropriately? I can't seem to find something I'm happy with, maybe it's all the easter egg chocolate...
Thanks!
darkweasel (Å vise profilen) 2012 4 7 16:35:35
EldanarLambetur:Sure it seems weird, because it’s not correct. Since the object of pri is not kia pentristo but the whole phrase kian pentriston mi kontaktos, you need -n.
It seems weird that I can't mark the "n" there
However, actually it feels more natural to leave out pri and just say mi ne certas, kian pentriston mi kontaktos.
EldanarLambetur (Å vise profilen) 2012 4 7 16:37:09
sudanglo (Å vise profilen) 2012 4 7 19:34:24
However, actually it feels more natural to leave out pri and just say mi ne certas, kian pentriston mi kontaktos.I don't think I agree Dark Weasel.
Would you say mi ne certas tion or mi ne certas pri tio? Mi ne pensis tion or Mi ne pensis pri tio?
I think if you translate Eldanar's sentence into various European languages there might generally be some preposition corresponding to the 'pri' - perhaps not in German though.
A way to keep your head straight about the accusative marking, Eldanar, is to shove in a tio after the 'pri' and then see how you would mark the accusative in the subclause.
Mi certas pri tio, kian specon mi devos aĉeti.
Edit: playing around with corpus searches suggests that the Esperantists have avoided 'pri kian'
darkweasel (Å vise profilen) 2012 4 7 19:49:08
sudanglo:The second one, but this is similar to the discussion about pensigi and kredigi we had recently.
Would you say mi ne certas tion or mi ne certas pri tio?
sudanglo:Well, both are valid but mean different things.
Mi ne pensis tion or Mi ne pensis pri tio?
sudanglo:Not in German: ich bin mir nicht sicher, was für einen Maler ich kontaktieren werde. Adding darüber (pri tio) would actually sound strange, if not incorrect.
I think if you translate Eldanar's sentence into various European languages there we would generally be some preposition corresponding to the 'pri' - perhaps not in German though.
Actually, can’t you say even in English "I’m not sure what kind of painter I’m going to contact"? I’m not a native speaker but I would have said it like that.
Ilmen (Å vise profilen) 2012 4 7 21:58:56
darkweasel (Å vise profilen) 2012 4 8 08:21:40
Ilmen:Hm, "Mi ne certas pri tia, kian pentriston mi kontaktos.", eble...?Not really.
sudanglo (Å vise profilen) 2012 4 8 10:02:31
The corpus searches support the use of 'pri tio, kian', but the absence of 'pri kian' implies that the Esperantists have felt this to offend their lingvosento.
The following seem OK to me (setting aside punctuation for the moment):
Tio memorigas pri kiam mi estis en Parizo
Li informis min pri kion li vidis
Mi ankoraŭ ne pensis pri kiom ni bezonos.
Temas pri ĉu ni havas la monon por tio
So, why not? -Mi ne certas, pri kian pentriston kontakti
There is an issue about the position of any comma. The corpus searches seem to favour the comma preceding the 'pri', as I have written in the above example. I need to think about this a bit more, before commenting.
Miland (Å vise profilen) 2012 4 8 10:16:53
However I would expect pri to be followed by tio or other substantive, e.g. Ĉu-demandoj kiel subfrazo (7th example in box), Aga radiko sed eca signifo (3rd example in box), so with pri I would say Mi ne estas certa pri tio, kian pentriston mi kontaktos.
sudanglo (Å vise profilen) 2012 4 8 10:34:36