Mesaĝoj: 13
Lingvo: English
e0richt (Montri la profilon) 2012-majo-20 21:22:01
Por oni helpi (iun), (tio) estas bona sed moki ne estas bona.
the words in parenthesis were left out of the original sentence but showed my
actual thought as part of the sentence structure.
I was told that this sentence was not correct and should be the following:
Por ke oni helpu iun, estas bona...
I want to know what "por" is. My assumption is that it is a preposition...
In Teach Yourself Esperanto there is the following sentence using a preposition:
anstataŭ ripozi, li laboris.
which I would think would equal:
Anstataŭ (li) ripozi, li laboris.
and if you can write that then you can write this:
Anstataŭ oni ripozi, oni devas labori (more like a saying to make more sense)
so what am I missing here?
any insights would be appreciated...
Mustelvulpo (Montri la profilon) 2012-majo-20 21:59:39
"Anstataŭ oni ripozi, oni devas labori." There is no need for a pronoun in the first clause- it should be "Anstataŭ ripozi, oni devas labori." The translation is "Instead of resting, one must work." Just as a pronoun would be awkward in the first clause of the English sentence- "Instead of one resting, one must work." - it doesn't fit in the Esperanto sentence either.
TatuLe (Montri la profilon) 2012-majo-20 22:34:27
e0richt:ok, I typed in a statement:It should be Helpi (iun) estas bone, sed moki ne estas bone (if I understood the intended meaning correctly, por isn't necessary in this sentence).
Por oni helpi (iun), (tio) estas bona sed moki ne estas bona.
Por ke oni helpu iun, estas bona...
The i-form (infinitive) of a verb can't be combined with a subject. Saying "li ripozi", "oni helpi" or "mi fari" is like saying "he to rest", "one to help" or "I to do" in English.
*Oni helpi iun estas bone = *One to help someone is good
✓Helpi iun estas bone = ✓To help someone is good
e0richt (Montri la profilon) 2012-majo-20 22:54:53
then this would have to be ok:
Estas bone helpi iun.... normally I would say it would be better as:
Estas bone por helpi iun... (which is not yoda-ized into esperanto. I have been told I think to anglically, which is probably true)
Mustelvulpo (Montri la profilon) 2012-majo-21 02:14:00
When I see "Estas bone por helpi iun" the thought seems incomplete. What is good for helping someone? In a sentence like this, use the word "por" to express that something is good for helping someone accomplish something. For example, "Forko estas bone por helpi iun manĝi." (Athough this could be expressed more concisely-"Forko konvenas por manĝado".)
TatuLe (Montri la profilon) 2012-majo-21 02:39:04
e0richt:if this is ok: Helpi (iun) estas bone, sed moki ne estas boneYes, that is correct.
then this would have to be ok:
Estas bone helpi iun....
e0richt:normally I would say it would be better as:The problem is that you are translating to help → por helpi.
Estas bone por helpi iun... (which is not yoda-ized into esperanto. I have been told I think to anglically, which is probably true)
The only purpose of "to" in to help (and in to work and to do) is to mark the next verb as an infinitive. In Esperanto such a word is not necessary, because infinitive is already marked with the i-ending on the verb. That is why the translation of to help is just helpi.
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However, the word "to" has many different meanings in English. In some sentences it is correct to translate it with por, for example:
I came here to drink a glass of water = Mi venis ĉi tien por trinki glason da akvo.
To find out which meaning "to" has in an English sentence, maybe you can try rephrasing it. If "to" in a sentence can be replaced with "for" without changing the meaning too much, it can (generally) be translated as por, I think:
I came here to drink a glass of water → I came here for a glass of water = Mi venis ĉi tien por glaso da akvo.
I want to drink a glass of water = Mi volas trinki glason da akvo (not por trinki)
I want to drink a glass of water → *I want for a glass of water = *Mi volas por glaso da akvo
Hope this helps!
Hyperboreus (Montri la profilon) 2012-majo-21 02:50:18
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2012-majo-21 03:02:27
pravi means "to be right" in the sense of having the right opinion.
It's hard to imagine a "ĝi" (as opposed to a li or a ŝi) having an opinion
The third sentence should be "Mi helpis ŝin trovi ŝiajn ŝuojn"
The subject is still "mi", not "ŝi", so you wouldn't use "si" here, since they are her shoes and not mine. We know this to be the case because if you drop "ŝin", the sentence still makes perfect sense - "Mi helpis trovi ŝiajn ŝuojn"
Hyperboreus (Montri la profilon) 2012-majo-21 03:28:37
sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2012-majo-21 09:58:18
So there is an important distinction between Mi helpis ŝin trovi ŝiajn ŝuojn and siajn ŝuojn.
Personally, I have no difficulty with finding my shoes, they are always under my bed.
Sed trovi siajn okulvitrojn, tio ja povas estas malfacila.