Wpisy: 27
Język: English
quieta (Pokaż profil) 16 czerwca 2012, 12:13:56
The original idea was that "Unfortunately we have a tendency to continue to think in English and then mentally translate...." Wouldn't this suggest that daŭri (intr.) would be a better choice than daŭrigi, which would require a DO?
By using daŭrigi, wouldn't we change the meaning to something like "...we have a tendency to continue (continue 'what'?) to think in English? Wouldn't this be an incomplete (and nonsensical) sentence in this case? Unless, of course, the infinitive pensi could be considered the DO.
Can an infinitive ever be considered to be a DO?
erinja (Pokaż profil) 16 czerwca 2012, 12:53:49
If it were me, I would have said "daŭre labori", with an adverb, and I just wasn't thinking right when I corrected it to daŭri.
But the core meaning of "daŭri" is "ekzisti aŭ okazi dum pli longa tempo". A person "daŭras" as long as they live on this earth; it isn't an idea that seems like it can accept another verb with it, just as *esti labori or *fariĝi labori wouldn't seem to make sense.
tommjames (Pokaż profil) 16 czerwca 2012, 16:52:36
quieta:Can an infinitive ever be considered to be a DO?PMEG seems to say that it can, at least functionally:
PMEG:I-verbo partoprenas en frazo en tiaj roloj, kiujn normale havas O-vorta frazparto: subjekto, objekto, pri-komplemento, k.t.p.
Trans: An I-verb can play those roles usually played by noun-like phrases: subject, object, compliment etc.
sudanglo (Pokaż profil) 16 czerwca 2012, 21:02:52
Unfortunately we have a tendency to continue to think in EnglishBedaŭrinde ni emas ne ĉesi pensi en la angla. Bedaurinde ni emas ankoraŭ pensi en la angla.
tomasdeaquino (Pokaż profil) 16 czerwca 2012, 23:23:00
sudanglo:As personal experience I can tell that when I stayed for a month in England to improve my English, I noticed that my notebook where I had daily meetings detail of work, the first week were written in Spanish, but then without realizing has changed the switch and from that time my notes were in English.Unfortunately we have a tendency to continue to think in EnglishBedaŭrinde ni emas ne ĉesi pensi en la angla. Bedaurinde ni emas ankoraŭ pensi en la angla.
Before when someone spoke to me in English, I mentally translated the question into Spanish, I thought the answer in Spanish and translated back into English to respond, when do the mental shift I forgot the Spanish and directly heard and responded in English, but of course it takes some time and it is best to be immersed in the new language to do so.
sudanglo (Pokaż profil) 17 czerwca 2012, 11:44:24
We can say La pluvo ĉesis and La pluvo daŭris. Also Tio ĉesigis la disputojn and Tio daŭrigis la disputojn.
But Ŝi ĉesis paroli is not matched by Ŝi daŭris paroli, though there are some instances of daŭri+inf in the Tekstaro. The preference seems to be for daŭrigi+inf. Even more so for daŭre+verb.
I have seen sentences like 'Cetere, mi ne havas la monon', li kontinuis. But daŭrigi is more common here.
The constructions Li obstinis paroli laŭtvoĉe and Ŝi persistis paroli sensence seem OK to me.
EldanarLambetur (Pokaż profil) 17 czerwca 2012, 12:45:33
) But I think PMEG agrees, there's a detailed section on the issue here.
I guess these differences arise from the slightly different ways the words are defined, not quite exact opposite. PMEG:
daŭri = plu esti, plu okazi
ĉesi =
1. komenci ne plu esti aŭ okazi
2. komenci ne plu agi (pri io)