Meddelanden: 8
Språk: English
Leke (Visa profilen) 14 juni 2012 18:09:45
For example:
Aĉulo -- Wretch
Knabaĉo -- Brat
So, why isn't aĉulo, ulaĉo and knabaĉo, aĉknabo?
Thanks.
darkweasel (Visa profilen) 14 juni 2012 18:12:47
xdzt (Visa profilen) 14 juni 2012 20:02:49
darkweasel:Aĉulo is the suffix -ul attached to the root AĈ/. Ulaĉo would also be fine, it’s just not as common.This raises another question for me: I know when you combine words, you do it in order of importance to the idea. e.g., 'terpomo' is an earth-apple -- it's primarily an apple, but it happens to be an earth-type, but pomtero would be ground that was somehow apple-y. My question, then, does the same thing extend to affixes? Obviously, the meaning wouldn't flip flop, but might the emphasis be different? Or is there instead a canonical order for affixes? I perceive that, for example, -ul- always goes before -in-, so surely there's some recommended order, even if it's merely convention.
Leke (Visa profilen) 14 juni 2012 22:34:07
darkweasel:Aĉulo is the suffix -ul attached to the root AĈ/. Ulaĉo would also be fine, it’s just not as common.Ah, sorry. Didn't realise -ul was also a suffix. Makes sense now -- thanks.
erinja (Visa profilen) 15 juni 2012 01:04:29
xdzt:My question, then, does the same thing extend to affixes?Affixes are added in the order of meaning, if you will, extending from the root.
malsana = sick
malsanulo = sick person
malsanulejo = a place for sick people
malsanejo = a sick place
malsanejulo = a sick place person (a person of a sick place, perhaps?)
That example has a huge difference in meaning - we're talking about a place versus a person, depending on order.
But if it's two adjectival type suffixes, then the only difference would be emphasis.
hundo = dog
hundeto = a small dog
hundetino = a female small dog
hundino = a female dog
hundineto = a small female dog
The dog is both small and female, no matter the order of the suffixes.
But if you work on the principle of building up the meaning from the root, step by step, you should always get it right. There's no special order to memorize, only logic.
marcuscf (Visa profilen) 15 juni 2012 02:51:40
So just a few suffixes can considered "true" suffixes, e.g. "in", "et", "eg" and maybe a few others, because they really change the meaning of the rest of the word and do not follow the "basic pattern" (main thing last).
In some cases this allows for multiple interpretations, but the meaning is (nearly) the same:
aĉulo: aĉ as the root and ul as suffix
aĉulo: ulo as the root and aĉ as "extra information" (a root too)
ulaĉo: ulo as the root and aĉ as a suffix
So, aĉulo and ulaĉo are both OK in my opinion. Aĉknabo sounds a little strange to me. Since aĉ is so suffix-like and knabo is not, knabaĉo sounds better.
As for the order of suffixes:
knabineto = eta knabino. (I prefer this one, as it looks more natural to think about a "small girl"...)
knabetino = ina knabeto ( ... than a "female small kid" )
The reason why "ulino" is preferred is clear: If you add "-in" to something, it already means a person or at least some living being. "Ul" becomes somewhat redundant after "in", while the reverse is not true.
whysea (Visa profilen) 15 juni 2012 07:46:49
I think aĉ is a little unique as far as affixes go, because it tends to be uttered to reflect emotion--so it's probably more likely to be put where it sounds good, not just where it logically fits. Aĉulo and ulaĉo both sound just fine to me, and personally I use ulaĉo more.
erinja (Visa profilen) 15 juni 2012 10:29:47
To me, an "aĉulo" (badness, in the form of a person) seems to be a worse insult than ulaĉo (a person characterized by badness).