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How to actively build vocabulary without linking to English?

by xdzt, June 19, 2012

Messages: 20

Language: English

xdzt (User's profile) June 19, 2012, 5:23:20 PM

I've been using Memrise for my vocabulary building, and I'm really fond of the system. The only problem with using such a flashcard system is that it's strengthening the links between the Esperanto words and their English associates. I'd like to be able to review Esperanto words without inextricably tying them in my mind to their English equivalents, but I haven't come up with any good alternatives.

I've considered using Esperanto definitions (probably from ReVo as it has nice succinct definitions) in place of English synonyms, but I worry that I'll just associate the two without really absorbing the meaning.

Do you folk think that drilling the English/Esperanto associations into my head will cause difficulty further down the line? Do you have any better systems to try instead?

One alternative is to stop actively building vocabulary after a certain point, and instead let it develop 'naturally' through contextual exposure. While I suspect this is an inevitable stage, I'd like to avoid it until my vocabulary is sufficiently large.

Leke (User's profile) June 19, 2012, 6:38:48 PM

Try learning sign language and then use the visual tools on sign websites to test yourself in esperanto.
Here is a good project on using sign language to learn any language: http://www.whereareyourkeys.org/

There are also some visual dictionary web sites like: http://wordstash.com/

I personally like sign because I find I don't think in English at all once I know the sign. This creates a kind of blank slate for learning new things. You'll be surprised how quickly it is to learn sign. For example I estimate I can remember about 40% of the vocab by seeing the sign just once. I have no idea why this is, but I like it.

sifb (User's profile) June 19, 2012, 7:17:43 PM

How about word/picture flashcards instead of word/word ones? (I don't know of any).

Children are as close to blank slates as humans ever get, and they take a 10-15 years to learn a language fluently. Building on things we know is what allows adults to learn in months to years. If you understand the world in terms of English now ... can you avoid learning new things in terms of English at all?

Even as a beginner, I'm finding the words I am most familiar with (kun, kaj, ĉu, vi, ...) are appearing in my head without going via English first, so ... are you actually noticing problems with English ties, or just worrying that there might be?

xdzt (User's profile) June 19, 2012, 7:25:14 PM

sifb:How about word/picture flashcards instead of word/word ones? (I don't know of any).
The problem with picture flashcards is that some abstract words are difficult to represent pictorially. Similarly, there are words that would require the same or similar pictures. Still, it's worth thinking more about.

sifb:Even as a beginner, I'm finding the words I am most familiar with (kun, kaj, ĉu, vi, ...) are appearing in my head without going via English first, so ... are you actually noticing problems with English ties, or just worrying that there might be?
I notice when I read Esperanto that I'll be internally saying the English words. I'll read, "Tamen li ne volas ĉesi" and I'll understand it, but inside my head is: "However he 'ne' [this one stays Esperanto] wants to stop". Whenever I catch this, I try to focus on subvocalizing the Esperanto to blur out the English, but it also blurs out my comprehension.

xdzt (User's profile) June 19, 2012, 10:27:51 PM

Leke:Try learning sign language and then use the visual tools on sign websites to test yourself in esperanto.
Here is a good project on using sign language to learn any language: http://www.whereareyourkeys.org/

There are also some visual dictionary web sites like: http://wordstash.com/

I personally like sign because I find I don't think in English at all once I know the sign. This creates a kind of blank slate for learning new things. You'll be surprised how quickly it is to learn sign. For example I estimate I can remember about 40% of the vocab by seeing the sign just once. I have no idea why this is, but I like it.
This is very interesting indeed, but I think learning one new language is enough for right now.

Astono465 (User's profile) June 19, 2012, 10:33:25 PM

My friend, I'm not certain that this is a problem. There is nothng wrong with associating Esperanto words with their English equivalent. Zamenhof developed Esperanto based on the languages he had knowledge of, of which there were about 12 according to Wikipedia. When we see words in foreign lanugages which correspond to words in our own native tongue, would that not make learning the language easier? I am from New Brunswick, Canada, our countries only offically bilingual province (English/French)and while I'm not a fluent French speaker I can understand and communicate enough to get by. The reason is in large part because of the many English related words. There is no need to relearn them, Doctor is Docteur (in French), Doktoro (in Esperanto). I personally find the amount of English related words in Esperanto, a great relief and takes a lot of stress out of learning.
Sorry dude, I didn't mean to write a book! lol.

cannona (User's profile) June 20, 2012, 1:52:48 AM

When I learned Spanish, I had memorized a lot of vocab, and I was always translating to English at first, but the more I used the words, the less that became necessary.

Our brains are good at making shortcuts, and I wouldn't worry too much about this. While at first you will probably have to go from concept to English to Esperanto, eventually your brain will develop a direct pathway from concept to Esperanto. I doubt you'll find it necessary to help your brain with this task.

Aaron

erinja (User's profile) June 20, 2012, 2:43:37 AM

I think listening in Esperanto is good practice for not translating constantly. You simply don't have enough time to formulate a translation for each word, you tend to understand the sense more than the exact words.

Evildela (User's profile) June 20, 2012, 5:10:39 AM

I also use memorise

And what I do is I link words with ideas...

For instance one side of the card will say:

What is the verb which means to eat something for pleasure, rather than hunger?

on the other side it will say:

Transitive: frandi

Than I will write three sentences using this verb, to make sure I know how to use it.

sudanglo (User's profile) June 20, 2012, 8:28:54 AM

I am not sure that associating Esperanto words with their English counterparts is particularly harmful, provided that you keep in mind that generally it is only the core meaning that the two languages have in common.

Thus Esperanto's neĝo is English's snow, when we are talking about the weather. But the snow that you see on a analogue television screen when reception is poor, may perhaps not be best translated by neĝo. I see that NPIV has registered neĝo as a slang word for cocaine, but whether this is universally accepted, I am not sure.

To put it another way, making the association is fine. You just need to be aware of what senses of the English word have been imported into Esperanto. Mainly, your first guess about this will be right.

There are, of course, a few false friends. Atendanto means someone who is waiting, not an attendant

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